I was a child

This is Steve's story. Who grew up scared of the person who was meant to love and protect him, his dad.

Please note there are swear words in this episode.

Transcript accuracy may vary.

Sources:

 https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/emotional-abuse/
https://www.womensaid.org.uk
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/childabuseextentandnatureenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019
https://www.womensaid.org.uk
https://mensadviceline.org.uk/
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/emotional-abuse/
https://thepsychodermatologist.com/nail-biting-not-just-a-habit/
https://www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/
https://www.childline.org.uk

Music by:

(Neffex - A year ago) 

(Neffex - dont want to let myself go) 

Transcript

Steve R: 0:00

And my old man was charming. You come across as being really nice to people, but as soon as the door closed, you're dealing with someone that's psychotic. So one minute he's laugh the next minute he's trying to punch your face

AO: 0:10

Welcome to another episode of Chataholic this episode I'm talking to my friend, Steve regarding his upbringing and how he feels that shaped him. And what lessons he has got from that. So just not going to go into anything else. I'm just gonna go into and speak to Steve. Hi, Steve. So would you just mind telling me a little bit about you and why you said yes to doing the podcast? Anything at all that you'd like to share? Go.

Steve R: 0:44

I'm Steven, Andrew, Renee. I don't like being called Steven. Don't particularly like the middle name, Andrew. I like to call Steve. I'm middle aged, unfortunately. what's relevant about me is the fact that I guess my dad was from Ireland and my mom's part Italian. So there's a weird mixture going. on I'm very musical. I like playing piano guitar. I write songs and whatnot. The reason why I agreed to do this podcast is not necessarily talk. The challenges that I've encountered in my time specifically, but more to talk about the effect it's had on me and how I've learned to live with things that have happened and how I've learned to cope with the situations that I've been in.

AO: 1:38

Can we start by you just telling me a bit about your upbringing.

Steve R: 1:42

In all fairness. I don't really remember a lot of when I was young. which probably tell you probably explains the reason why I'm doing this to whatever extent. I don't remember a lot about being young two brothers, my mom and my dad. So we all live together in the same house to be fair, it wasn't dysfunctional. But it wasn't particularly good.

AO: 2:02

Do you mind elaborating on that? What wasn't great

Steve R: 2:06

because of my dad and his behavior to, to us all it wasn't it wasn't great to be fair. really funny when you, when you. When you were around people, when you're at school and you were around people like primary school, you kind of look at other people's lives and you think, oh man, you know, like, you know, this one people in your class look at their mom and dads, you look at their dad, which was a thing for me. you don't know what's wrong, but you know, it ain't the. Then you get to a point where you just accept the fact that you don't know how he's gonna be when he's around you, you dunno what he's gonna do. And you think, oh yeah, yeah know, they got nice dads and you know, whatever, whatever. And then you used, I used to look up my old man and I, you don't know what's wrong, but you know, it ain't the. Then you get to a point where you just accept the fact that you don't know how he's gonna be when he's around you, you dunno what he's gonna do. You dunno the way he's gonna behave. And you're just conscious of the fact that you don't wanna set him off. Cause if you set him off, then he becomes physical rather than, or physical and verbal to be fair. So yeah, it's, that's, that's hard.

AO: 3:22

what do you mean by set him off? You're a child children can test your patience That's I think that's a requirement to being a child is testing adults, patients.

Steve R: 3:36

So what I mean by set him off is the fact that he will react to a situation that is completely. Unnecessary his reaction was unnecessary or he just had his own problems. And his way of giving those problems was to fucking make it everyone else's problem. I grew up very, very quiet. I didn't used to speak a lot. I remember that.

AO: 4:00

You lived with your mom, your brothers. So your mum was around during this time. How did she fit into this? Did she try and appease him because if he was slightly volatile, Did she was her role damaged limitation.

Steve R: 4:17

She was scared of him as well she, it used to beat her up for a start As a child, I didn't really understand anything to do with it. As an adult, I can understand that she was scared I think when you're in that situation where you don't believe you've got options, then you can't, then you, then you are completely controlled by the situation that you are in. Then there isn't really, I guess there's nothing that you can do. You're almost helpless. However, however, as a child. I didn't, I mean, as a child, I didn't understand that as a, as an adult, looking back as a, as, as to when I was a child, it's completely unreasonable to have left me or my brothers in that situation. So it's regardless, she was scared. We were all fucking scared. The difference being she's an adult and I'm a fucking child.

AO: 5:21

I'm not going to make excuses or allowances for her. Although it may sound like I am. But you're born in a different time. It was. It was completely different world back in the. Seventies. Eighties nineties. It was different.

Steve R: 5:45

It was a different time. People never really, I think I only ever knew of two people when I was at primary school who were in a situation where their parents got divorced. It was a different time. I think there was a lot more accepted in those times in the eighties as well. And I think as well, to be totally honest with you, my old man was just a master of deflecting reality, I guess, in so much as like people I spoke to in later times said to me, they can't believe that he was like that because they didn't see that. And I've said, well, look, you know, with the greatest repect, you couldn't see it, which are. You don't live in the house. And my old man was charming. You come across as being really nice to people, but as soon as the door closed, you're dealing with someone that's psychotic. So one minute he's laugh the next minute he's trying to punch your face. You know, doing whatever he, he would do whatever he felt that he needed to do.

AO: 6:43

Were there any issues? With substance abuse, alcohol abuse. Although you were a child. So I don't know if you actually would know the answer to that.

Steve R: 6:54

My dad never used to drink and he never used to do drugs. he wasn't able to drink. He was on medication. And then he had an accident and he became epileptic. So he went onto like tablets for that. So he wasn't able to drink, but then equally, I think, I dunno, I can't tell you for sure. Cause I don't remember, but I know that his dad died of as a result of alchocolism. So, I dunno if that had had an effect on him fundamentally, you know, the difference between what's right and wrong and what's right, in my opinion, is that if you are scared as a child, your parents are there to protect you. They're not the people that you should be scared.

AO: 7:44

This was never picked up when you went to school. No one, none of the teachers, not even one, not even in your brothers classes. There wasn't one teacher and I'm not, I'm not blaming teachers. I'm not saying that they're responsible although i'm going to use what i always say which is duty care so this was never picked up

Steve R: 8:06

No, never. No. Cuz this is the thing. So everything was masked. You know, we go to school. This is where it's difficult to explain cuz we, when you are in this situation, what you are going through is normal. There was never a reason why I'd need to go to school and say to my teacher, my dad took his fucking belt to me last night because I didn't do the washing up or because I left something on the floor. I thought that was just the way it was, be fair. Whenever my parents used to go to home, like parents evenings or whatever, they would just be told what good pupils we were. We were just very polite, respectful, quiet. So it was almost like it was the perfect situation, the perfect family situation or whatever.

AO: 8:50

But now as an adult. You're able to identify what you went through was some form. Well, not some form. It was actually. Child abuse. It is deemed as abuse.

Steve R: 9:04

Yeah. To be fair. I recognized this a long time ago actually. That it was emotional, physical abuse. Yeah. Because of my mom, I didn't trust him with her. So when it got to a point where, when it got to a point where I was able to like fight back, rather than just taking. Taking everything off him, so to speak, he then got scared of me. And then I stayed because he was still acting the way he was acting towards my mum. And he still tried a little bit with me, but not successfully to be fair, but yeah, he still tried to go there with me, but I stayed because of my mum.

AO: 9:45

Did you have some form of. Release something that you took. I don't know some place that maybe. You went to in your heads or I don't know, something that gave you comfort living in that situation. Don't know if comfort's the right word.

Steve R: 10:10

so this is interesting. So I, I was thinking about this the other day, actually. So I remember I I've always bit my nails and I dunno. And it only dawned on me last week. The reason why is because I was living in fear all the time and I was just nervous all the time. And most people bite their nails because they're they're nervous or whatever. And I remember like the countless occasions where they were trying to stop me, like me, mum and dad, trying to stop me from bite nails, for example. But in hindsight, when you think about it with perspective and with an adult mind rather. The child mind when you realize the reason why you're doing it was because I was living in fear. And it's almost like this weird situation because they're the cause or he's the cause. And then I'm getting, I'm getting chastised because I'm doing what he's driven me to do. So I guess to some extent bitting my nails was the way of dealing with it. Other ways. I dunno. Cause the problem is I don't really remember a lot, so I know that I used to play the piano. And I used to go and see my nan and granddad, cuz they lived just around the corner from where we lived.

AO: 11:17

So I asked you if your nan in grandad. That was your mom's side. So I asked you. Whether they knew. And you answered and said yes. Why didn't they step in

Steve R: 11:31

I don't have an answer to that question. I know that they were scared me. My granddad was scared of my dad cuz he was, he was just a loon. I know, I do remember a period of time when I was maybe maybe six or seven where my Nan and my dad fell out about something, but I don't really remember what it was. Maybe I didn't need to know it was in my business, but she didn't like him. And a lot of my mum's family didn't like him. I had to be fair with good reason.

AO: 11:57

If you ever look back and think about it. All you. Are you angry with them? Do you feel that actually. They could have stepped in. They would have maybe have been in. I decent position to step in being that they were your family.

Steve R: 12:13

No. They, they didn't intervene. My nanny and granddad didn't intervene. Didn't think about it I've never thought about it. What I think is that my mom should have taken this out that situation. So the person I blame beyond him is her, I don't blame anybody else.

AO: 12:28

Are you still angry of how all these years later? Even knowing that statistically women who go through domestic abuse, domestic violence there's a higher probability putting their lives at risk when they try to flee. Which isn't God by no means. Am I saying that anyone in that situation should. Just stay in that situation. But I think it's different now because we have. All of these organizations that support and can help women in that situation. And we were a lot more it's more spoken about. And please don't think I'm. Because I'm not, I'm not defending her. I a hundred percent can relate. I can relate to you being angry. But I just wonder. Now as an adult. All you still angry.

Steve R: 13:27

Yep.

AO: 13:27

Okay, fair enough. At some point, you then obviously cause, you know, you are middle aged now now. you then. Grew from being a young child. Into adolescence. How did things change for you then?

Steve R: 13:47

I mean, to be fair from the age of 16, I left school, I went straight to college and that changed my perspective on a lot of things in terms of socializing and you know, wanting to do other things. And when I left college, I was working full time. So I was now financially stable in so much as I could afford to do whatever I like to do. So what I like to do is go out every night and get pissed so that's. and smoke drugs. So that's what I did.

AO: 14:14

did you ever think when you became financially stable? And in your words, Could afford to do whatever you wanted. I don't know. Did you and your brothers ever think about or talk about. Okay, well, I'm assuming they possibly also had jobs. Maybe now we could come together and see if we can find somewhere to get mom out of this situation. I don't know. I feel like I'm asking these questions. Obviously as an adult. And I know. Also that that would be putting a lot on someone too have to be in a position to I was like, no, I guess. Be responsible for their parent. I don't know each, each just something that entered my head. So I wanted to ask.

Steve R: 15:12

No, never thought of it. I think to be honest with you, I think it's more the fact that she had a choice. So it is. We, we were almost secondary, you know, when, when I was working and my middle brother were working. Cause we're not that far apart in terms of age or whatever, you know, she could have chosen to do what she felt she needed to do. I think so. No, it never crossed my mind to say we should all do something. We should like collectively put her hands in the pot and try and make something. Because we just weren't that kind of family, we're not, you know, it just isn't, it was never, we never spoke. We never spoke. We talked, we spoke to each other obviously, but what I mean is we never sat down and had any sort of deep or meaningful. It was literally just almost polite and courteous, I guess, to whatever extent, I don't know. what my brothers would, would have their relationship. I mean, I know they're close, but I wasn't part of that. So I dunno, I dunno. I dunno what their end goal could have been potentially if there was one or if there wasn't. I dunno, I wasn't part of it

AO: 16:38

you then moved out when you were 22.

Steve R: 16:42

I moved in with my my partner I moved in because I wanted to live with her. I wanted, I wanted our relationship to be, I didn't move out as, as a form of escaping. Cause I chose to stay. I could have left a long time before that, but I chose not to. I chose to leave when it was right for me to leave, to be in a relationship and to have our own place, I guess, to be fair, it's the time to grow up, I suppose, whatever extent.

AO: 17:04

When you moved out, did your mum ever come to visit? Did you ever invite your dad.

Steve R: 17:12

No. When I decorated the flat, when I was trying to set it, he came to help, but I'd done a lot of it already, cuz that's what he did. He was, he was very. Manually able, so he came to help, but it didn't come around for tea. I think there was no. And let's get together on a Sunday afternoon and have roast dinner. No, no, never, never, never crossed my mind to invite him. They never asked. We never did

AO: 17:39

I know this because obviously I know you. At some point the contact and any type of communication, completely ceased. What triggered that?

Steve R: 17:52

So. Reese, my son was born and I remember him being very unwell, and needed to take him to the hospital, phoned up my mom to ask her to help me. And she said no, and I didn't drive by the way. So it was literally her answer was get, get an ambulance. So I did, I took my son up there obviously with his mom and then it took a week for a phone call to find out how he was. So I told them, I told her. And that was it. It was all weird. And then I phoned her back to tell her exactly what I thought about the whole thing, which I did. And then he got on the phone and my response to him was very simple. Why don't you come around and say, that's my face then, which he didn't do by the way. To be fair, she said to me, the reason that she didn't want to take us up there was because she'd been at the hospital with my grandad. Cause he wasn't very well, which was that's true. He wasn't very well, but equally. If that's your only grandchild, regardless of how fucking tired you are, you ain't working, you get yourself down here, you sort it out. That's what I would do, but she chose not to. So when he got on the phone and started giving it the big one, well, it was very simple. Cause I don't live there. Don't owe him anything anymore. It didn't matter to me. I'm not beholden to his ruling of the fucking castle. I'm in my house. You wanna come down and say, that's my face. Come and say it to. which he didn't do. He put the phone down on me cause I, I totally lost my temper with him. And then there was contact when my grandad died, I went to his funeral. They were there, I think on the, just before that was my son's birthday and they, I dunno, gave some presents or something like the other, which was all half arsed really. and that really was the beginning of the end. And then I didn't, I didn't talk to him for years. So we moved, we moved out in 90, 98, 90 99, sorry, just before Reese was two. I never went. I never went back to their house. I've not been to their house inside since my granddad's wake, which was in 99. Yeah. And the only other times I've seen him really have been at funerals, like when my nan died and then. Yeah, my, I can't remember really, but my nan died. I went to the, her funeral. They were both there. And when the old man died a couple years ago, I saw her. I got a phone call from my ex-wife. Who'd had a phone call from my sister-in-law.

AO: 20:33

So you found out that your dad had died from your sister-in-law. Did you ever consider not going to his funeral Why I don't know why did you go I don't think i would have

Steve R: 20:53

Two reasons. number one. It was really to show them that I wasn't gonna put myself. In a position where they thought, oh, he's too scared to come to come to this because fuck them. And number two, if I'm being honest, probably to make sure that he was dead.

AO: 21:11

Did it give you some type of closure?

Steve R: 21:14

Weirdly? It kind of did halfway through it. Halfway through it. I kind of felt that I was able to forgive him for what he did to me, but I think in retrospect, I've not forgiven him at all, actually. So I think that was probably more the occasion rather than reality to be, to be honest. In all fairness. And I, I think about this from time to time. I think if his behavior, to me, hadn't had the effect he's had on me, then I don't think it would be that much of an issue, but because the way his behavior is affected the way I am, I won't, I can't. Get over that I don't think about, to be honest, I don't think about it. And I was to be fair. I was conscious that when we were doing this, I didn't want it to come across as some kind of massive sob and every, you know, people listen and they think, oh, well, you know what? Poor guy and all this, it's not, this is about, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but I don't need sympathy empathy. I'm just telling the story and the honest truth is I can't forgive him and I don't really see why I should have to, if I'm being told straight, if other people wanna forgive him, like my mom or my brothers. Good, you know, good for them, do what you want. But what I've learned to do is manage the situation

AO: 22:35

My personal opinion because I just can't stop myself. I'm so sorry. I think she should forgive him. Not for his benefit. For your benefit.

Steve R: 22:45

Do you know, in all fairness, I tell the way I see it. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. I don't need to forgive him so that I can feel better. I feel better in myself because I've accepted it for what it is. And I understand it wasn't my fault. So I don't need to forgive him to make. It feel better to me when I know that I didn't do anything wrong. If I'd been like really as a child really bad and sort of non-behavioral whatever, then fair enough. You, you know, to whatever extent you might say, well, it's justifiable it isn't, but you might justify it to yourself by saying it's justifiable, but I wasn't, and I didn't do anything wrong. And I know I didn't do anything wrong. So now I can live with the fact. it wasn't of my making or doing so in all honesty. But I think the reason I won't forgive him is cuz I won't be a hypocrite because I think if I was to forgive him, even if it was for the right reasons, I'd be justifying what he did. Yeah. So that's why, so what has, what effect has it had on me? Like he's. The effect he's had on me is my, my anger issues, I guess, I guess the fact that I won't necessarily talk to people about things that might. help me to talk about. And if I do, it's probably too late when I do it. And I think the other thing, another thing that I think about is sometimes when I look at myself, I can see him and that's a problem. I see, look, I'd look like him. So I look in the mirror, like if I've got like a beard or whatever else, I've grab my beard out or whatever. I look like him. I could see it in like his eyes when I lose my temper, the same sort of look or whatever. So that's quite hard to live with really like if you hate someone, the last thing you wanna do is fucking see him. If that makes sense.

AO: 24:45

I think when it's someone who you can't comfront and discuss the situation with. What are you gaining from holding onto it

Steve R: 24:55

Because I think, as I said, if I did, he's justifying it what he did, I totally agree. I know exactly what you're gonna say. I can't give you an answer because I don't know. What I do know is that. By not accepting what he did. It enables me to know that what he did was wrong. The only way I can explain it, it's completely illogical. I know cuz I've had conversations with people and they've all said very similar things to me. In fact, the only people that haven't said anything similar are people that have gone through similar situations. Interestingly,

AO: 25:35

there's something to be said about forgiveness. There's this Chinese proverb. If you're a patient in one moment of anger. You escape a hundred days of sorrow.

Steve R: 25:47

Okay. Fair enough. I accept that. There is a flip side to that, and so much as. I actually quite like that feeling if I'm being totally fair. It's almost like a sense of like a real sense of freedom actually, and being strong because when you are unempowered and then you feel empowered, Then there is, there is a, there is a, an almost surge of, I'm not the fucking child anymore. I'm a man. So I, I guess to whatever extent, And I do think that I tell you what's weird and I've thought about this and I've spoken to people about this. I've spoken to people that have been victims of abuse like this. And I say to, I say to them, I've said, I've said to people. Do you know what I would in an ideal world, if you could do anything to kind of change something or whatever, what would you do? And I've, I've always thought to myself, and this is weird. Cause I dream about this a lot actually. And I don't dream very often cause I sleep very, very lightly, which is a result of the childhood. But when I do remember the dreams I have, which are very, very few and far between a lot of those dreams revolve around being around my dad as an. Being an equal in terms of physicality. So I do sometimes think not, not so much now to whatever extent, but I have thought about over the years, what it would be like if I was to meet my dad at my age and he was at my age, obviously it's impossible. But the point is though, we are now equal people. So he's in front of me at my age. I'm my build. He's the build that he was whenever he was my age or whatever, I'd be very interested to see where we went then, because now, now I'm not 5 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 20 21. When he last put fucking ends on me. So now we are at an equal age. so what's he gonna do? I'd be very interested to see that reaction because I can tell you what the reaction would be. Obviously, I don't know, cause I've not done it, but the point is I can tell you what reaction would be. He would be scared to coward. So when he is facing me now, or whenever, when I'm able his reaction or his ability to be anything. To be a dominance would be completely nonexistent. And I have those dreams

AO: 28:42

since he's passed away. Have you ever reached out to your mum? Has she ever reached out to you? Has it. Ever occured to you as something that you felt you may want to do. To speak to her to ask her why did she put you in that situation

Steve R: 29:06

nope. I'm not interested. I'm not interested. I'll tell you the reason why, because I have children, she has grandchildren that she's not fucking bothered about. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not interested, Nope. Not interested. And they're not interested in speaking to me. So, so it'd be fair. It works both ways. You know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna discuss this situation as in oh, poor Steve. He tries all these things and I don't try cause I don't wanna, and they don't try it cuz they don't wanna. And I accept that. It's fine. I've got no problem at that time.

AO: 29:49

Steve I know what you went through as a child was unacceptable. It was horrible. And. In theory, we're supposed to live in a world where our parents protect us. But we don't live in a utopia. But you all are a dad dads. And partly because of your experience of what you went through. I think that's affected how you are as a father You do see that there have been a lot of positives in your life. the joy of being a person is. You get to choose your family. Your family don't have to be related to by blood. And you have all these people who care and love you. But also. I know you have an amazing positive in your life.

Steve R: 30:40

Yeah, the positives, the one, the major positive is the way I feel towards my children

AO: 30:46

you have a really good dad. You are. You went through something horrible. And your children will never have to go through that because. You're really good dad

Steve R: 30:58

To be fair. I don't think I'm a particularly good dad. I just think I'm a dad and I just do what I just try and do the best that I can do given my own inabilities. I know, no, I dunno. Firsthand to be fair because I don't really think I had a dad cuz I don't think the person that was my dad did anything for me to show me anything beyond the bad side of what being a parent is. If that makes sense. I can't remember many things where he was actually reasonably decent towards me, if I'm being totally fair. So I've seen my friends' dads, the ones that I think are good fathers, and I always used to think that a good dad is the kind of dad that doesn't lose his temper. That doesn't let things affect him that, you know, consistently tries to be the best person. The one thing, the one thing that I think I am good at with my children is respecting them for who they are. So regardless of what they do. As in whatever they wanna do with their lives and whatever, I'll completely support them. Whereas I didn't get any of that. I I'd hope that's the case. All I know is that I love my children and I do anything that I can do to make their lives as good as I can make them and do whatever I can do for. And have the difficult conversations when they're doing something wrong and have the good conversations when they're doing things well and, and be, you know, positive and encouraging. And to be honest with you, just be honest with them as well. Like we never, we never sat down and spoke about anything, but with my children, I sit down with'em I talk to'em. I talk to them like they're adults. I show'em the respect that I would show my friends, my family, my friends, because I don't wanna be in a position where my children can't talk to me because they're scared to talk to me because if they say the wrong thing, then I'm gonna lose my temper and just flip my lid completely. And, you know, act like Andy Renee, that won't happen. That's to me. If I can get to the point when I die and my children are able to still talk to me. Yes, I will then say I've been a good dad because there is a fluid communication between us as, as people, rather than as you should do this, because I'm your dad. I'm your mom. I'm your parent. I'm whoever I'm bet I'm better than you on above you. No, no, no. It should be. You can talk to. We can discuss whatever and I'll show you respect. But I expect, obviously I expect it back, but if I can get to that point when I die and my children are still able to do that, then yeah, I will say I'm a good dad. So the positive message of this, this conversation is that as long as you, I guess, as long as you. You, you don't have to accept what happens to you at any point in your life. You don't have to accept that and you don't have to justify it. That's the thing you don't, you don't need to look at yourself and say, this is justifiable because what you need to be able to do or what you can hopefully be able to do is say, I understand it. Wasn't my faullt. These situations were not of me making them or choosing. So if you can reach that point when you face these problems in these situations and on whatever issues, you know, you face in life, then I think that's really, really, really positive. I think, you know, you, it probably shows a deep sense of character because some people that are victims go through life, blaming everything. That's gone wrong in their life on the fact that this has happened to'em and they don't accept the fact that, you know, there's a way to deal with that or whatever managing I like to say. It's not, it's not dealing with it. It's managing, you're managing on a daily basis to be able to cope with whatever you've been through. So I guess the positive for me is the fact that I understand I didn't do anything wrong. and I understand that that's not the way to be towards your children and I'm not blind to the fact that perhaps the world isn't a fairy tale or whatever. I've never, I've never been like that. But. What's positive also is the fact that I can still see an innocence with my children. And to be fair, if they, you know, if they can live their lives with that level of innocence, then yeah, that's very, very positive. Cuz my innocence left me a long time ago when I was still a child. So if they've still got that, then I can't ask for nothing else.

AO: 36:12

Massive thank you to Steve for agreeing to actually talk about his experience. Because. It was tough for him. And I'm so grateful that he actually said that he would do it. I've put some links on the, under the show notes of different agencies that are available. And for women who are going through a domestic violence. Domestic abuse and also. men too because men also do go through domestic abuse Because I love the statistic. I went on to the office of national statistics in. England and Wales and it gave some, just some figures. Such as. Many cases of child abuse remains hidden. Around one in seven adults who called the national association of people abused. In childhoods. They hadn't ever told anyone before about for Steve to agree. To talk about. What he experienced. I am. I'm really appreciative of that. And. I've worked for organizations before. And if you visited a household and you thought the child was being neglected. Or abuse. It was drummed into me that we all had to duty of care to report that. To social services that the agency in the United Kingdom. Who then investigate those. And. Sometimes. Maybe they don't get it right all the time. I'm aware of how much pressure they're under. And I know, I love to say duty of care. But I feel like in most countries, at least most Western countries. If you see something that isn't right. You should report it because children. Children are innocent. Anyhoo that's that's it. I don't. I don't feel like I've given one of my. little things for awhile. So thank you for listening. And hopefully I will be back soon with my next episode. Thank you. Take care. Bye.