Having ADHD makes you special, not broken

ADHD what does it mean to you?  Does it mean anything?
I speak to Adva Shaviv who was diagnosed later in life. I get a full account of what it means to her and what life is like.
Adva is clear that she is not speaking for everyone, this is her journey living with a Neurobehavioral Disorder that is misunderstood in the main stream and her aim to change this. Which is the reason she choose to embark on writing an ADHD fantasy book.

Please note transcription accuracy may vary.

Music:
(Neffex - A year ago)
(Neffex - dont want to let myself go)



https://www.kessem.com
https://twitter.com/AdvaShaviv
https://www.instagram.com/advashaviv/
https://www.tiktok.com/@advashaviv
https://www.facebook.com/ADventuresHeadingupandDown
https://advashaviv.medium.com
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/

Transcript

Adva: 0:00

ADHD is part of me. I wouldn't be me without my ADHD. It's how my brain is wired. It's not an attention deficit. It's a difference in attention. Because the opposite of not being able to concentrate is hyper focusing, not being able to stop your attention. And that is also a part of ADDED of being ADDED. And I actually think we're just often, we get the complaint that we are too much, we are too loud, we move too much. We say too much. We speak too much, and that it's true. But we are also, well, if you can concise it too creative or we have ADDED creativity, ADDED imagination. So there are so many things, good and bad that we have more than other people. So it's just, It's a difference. It's a difference. Which I wouldn't want to change in myself.

AO: 0:51

Welcome to another episode of Chataholic. This episode, I am speaking to Adva, who is speaking to me from another Country in Europe. So, yay, only one hour time difference. That makes me happy. she's going to talk to us about, what it's like for people who have ADHD. I was really interested in speaking to her because I don't really know anything about ADHD. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm gonna just start the way I start all of them. Would you tell me a bit about you, what you do, and why you wanted to share your journey?

Adva: 1:31

Yeah, first, thanks very much for having me. And about the question about me, which seems so very obvious and probably the easiest for many people. I actually always get confused by this question. Cuz people usually mean what it is you do or other things that are sort of permanent. And for me, permanent is not an option. I've changed a lot of occupations, I've changed a lot of study fields. Actually the only consistency I have is inconsistency and that's very much ADHD. I did earn actually a PhD in philosophy, which many people would think, Wait, that's not ADHD, because it requires a lot of persistence in many years of consistent effort. it's actually the other side of ADHD, which is very much part of it as is changing things because once you do get into something, you can stick to it. You can hyper focus. and so it's just another part of it. So I've been a philosopher, I've been a translator, editor, educator is sort of chronic. I stuck with it also to homeschooling. And now I'm writer actually. I write an ADHD fantasy story.

AO: 2:42

I have a question just because not everyone knows. Can you please just say, what does ADHD ADHD stand for?

Adva: 2:50

Yeah, well that's a big question. The letters stand for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, and that is a very wrong name. I think there's actually a consensus that it's a very bad name, but there's still, or I don't know, there's still not another name for it. I personally call it ADDED and maybe I'll explain a little later. In simple words, I would say it's a lack of filters because everything, there was this movie, Everything Everywhere, all at once. I thought it was an ADHD movie because this is what life feels like actually. So I'm talking to you now in a music studio. So it's very quiet, not mine, my sons. But otherwise any other room, I would be hearing everything. At the same time, it will be make very difficult to concentrate. Also, I asked for you to agree to do this on video also, because otherwise Is it just the audio? I find it very difficult to concentrate. I lose focus. I can speak and still lose my focus. It happened to me once when I was lecturing. Actually, I was on stage and giving a lecture and forgetting what I was speaking about. So you do develop sort of strategies to fix it. I used to say, Okay, let me rephrase and then start again. But yes, it's about that. But it's not just about concentrating. It affects everything about life. It affects work, it affects study, but it also affects relationship. You can forget that you set up an appointment with a friend. You can be late. It's also about losing interest. Sometimes you can lose interest with people even though you cared a lot about them, but for some reason it's just not working so much anymore. You lose interest with subjects, you change jobs. It's everything, really. And like I said, even just sitting, speaking, anything, reading, which is one thing I really love to do, I cannot always count on it that I can focus. And that's another big misconception. People think that especially for kids in school, which is very bad actually, it has a a detrimental effect on their self-esteem because teachers, parents assume that they don't do what they're supposed to do because they don't care enough. They care enough. They care more actually than other people. I can move on to the first person because I know this so much. it's like we really want to prove that we want to do this, but we still can't. And so we feel guilty and it's sort of like a vicious circle. I want to, I cannot, That means I probably, maybe I'm, I really don't want to, maybe I don't understand myself. What is it I'm doing wrong? Why am I so wrong? what is wrong with me actually?

AO: 5:34

I didn't know until I was doing some research and then I joined some forums just to try and get an idea of what people. Actually go through, because the only people I know who've ever spoken about ADHD is Parents of children who have ADHD, but never people who, other than one lady. the amount of people on there and the things they were posting that people say to them, Just sit down. Yes, we know you are struggling to concentrate, but everyone struggles a bit to concentrate. it's okay. Just be quiet. And someone said, it's very patronizing. if you just sit down for long enough, it's fine. You can focus. And it gave me an insight that I didn't know this and I wanted to know this before. I spoke to you. When were you diagnosed Because I learned recently that you can be diagnosed as an adult, but if you're diagnosed as an adult, you had it in childhood.

Adva: 6:32

Yeah, I was, I think 37 or 38 years old, which is quite a late diagnosis, and it means exactly what you described. It means 37 or eight years of hearing. Why don't you just concentrate? Why don't you just apply yourself, if you only tried harder, you would be, or the classic, How come a bright girl like yourself and complete whatever. Yeah. Fill in the blanks and it's a lifetime of hearing that and thinking that, because as long as you're not diagnosed, you don't understand. I recently described that actually in something I wrote as something is wrongness because I clearly remember that feeling as a child that something is wrong with me. I don't know what, because people say you're so bright, you can do that and that, and they just keep complimenting me on things I do. And yet it's always like a yes, but it's, you are bright, but. Why don't you? Why can't you like, it's so simple. It should be really easy for you. Why don't you do that? And I didn't understand that myself. Why can't I do that? So it's years and decades of growing up thinking that you're guilty for things that you're not guilty for because your brain simply wouldn't allow you to do it otherwise. And so diagnosis is really crucial. Even if it's late, it's so much better late than never because it's the first and very necessary step into realizing you're not guilty, you're fine. There's actually nothing wrong with you, which is another point I'd like to make. I don't see this as anything wrong. It is a different, it's a big difference. It affects everything, but it's a difference. I personally don't even regard as a disability, although I know many people do. And I accept that and I can understand why, because it does hinder us from doing many things but I do think it is possible to find a different way to build your life around yourself, around your strength, and who you really are. Who I really am, and that changes everything.

AO: 8:38

I guess because now everyone I know who is a parent whose child has been diagnosed, I know they are now at least trying personally, Sometimes I feel like maybe they're a bit too quick to give children a label. that's just my opinion Why wasn't it until you were an adult?

Adva: 8:58

in my personal case, it was because of lack of knowledge. I think there was a very little awareness of what ADHD really was until at least the nineties, if I think so. And I was born in 1970, so that was rather early for that. and then in your teens and later on I managed also with girls. It's very different because usually hyperactivity, even if it's present, it appears differently. So I was actually thrill seeking and stuff like that, but mostly hidden because I didn't want my parents to worry. So when I did dangerous stuff, I usually did it with my friends or without them knowing. And in class or wherever else, I was just sitting. I was always doing something with my hands, fidgeting, moving my legs, changing positions. But this is not so much attention grabbing as a child who gets up, like most hyperactive boys do, which is a difference between most boys and most girls who are hyperactive, By the way, some people are not H, they're just ADD So they don't have this necessarily, this hyperactivity. and then It's very difficult to notice because teachers knew I was okay. I had a big gap in my grades between say in math, I was very good in grammar. I was very good geography, very bad history, And nobody seemed to notice. I think even today, by the way, people would not think of this specific thing as a sign of anything. But it is because when I did care for something, it was very easy for me. But when I didn't, it was so hard. It was impossible actually. And this continued actually until my MA, when things were beginning to be hard, even though I cared and I was interested still, I needed to work much more than I used to. I think that was about when I started to read things and think, Wait, maybe there's just something else here that is hiding. And still, of course, it took several years, I don't remember how many, quite many years until I actually thought, Wait, maybe I do need to go and get a diagnosis. I did want to add something. This is ADHD in action because you said something and I forgot what it was. All right. About the labeling of kids. I understand where this is coming from, but I think it's very wrong because like I said, growing up with something which you feel is different but has no name and nobody understands it and nobody recognizes it, is not growing up without a label, is growing up with a label of either lazy, flaky, spacey, wrong, uncooperative, whichever label. Which is always much worse than the label ADHD. And while I do believe it is possible that some kids get diagnosed while it's wrong, while they're actually not ADHD, I still think there are many more that are still undiagnosed because there's still a lot of ignorance about it.

AO: 12:07

a friend of mine that looked after this little boy, and she kept on saying to them, I think you maybe need to get him tested. And his mom didn't want to, when his sister came along, the dad said, Okay, we don't know what it is, but I think you may be right. But even then, they didn't want to. I don't know. is there still this, I don't know, is it negative? Is there this mis connotation assigned to ADHD It's obviously better than the seventies. But I still don't think it's that great. I'm not sure. I feel like there's still a long way to go.

Adva: 12:45

I definitely agree. there's a lot of talk about ADHD, but I think most of it is wrong. When we emailed, you also asked me about meds and you said you found there were some negative, side effects for some meds, and you said? That some people claim there's a cure for ADHD.

AO: 13:04

that's actually why I mentioned the lady not wanting to get her son diagnosed because I'm not, by no means am I judging her, but I think her attitude was, if I pretend he'll just grow out of it. It was only when I saw it on the NHS website, I thought where it said there is no cure. And I thought, why would you put that on there? Because obviously people must go to see their doctor and say, Okay, well, is there a cure?

Adva: 13:31

Yeah, so first, like I said the very word cure is not in place here because this is not a disease. Cures are used to cure diseases and. I can think about I think the best metaphor would be Albanism because it's a difference. This is a neurological difference and Albanism is a different sort of difference, but it's something you can see. While ADHD is invisible, actually, but it's still, it's a difference. Like Albernism can affect sight. Sometimes they can hardly see or they don't see as well as possible. In some places of the world it can even be dangerous. people are hunted. But then on the other way you can say it can also be attractive. Depends of course, on the personal taste and on the personal, the specific person, but it's just a difference. And ADHD is quite similar to this in many ways. It doesn't affect sight necessarily, but it affects. Everything else, also physical things. For instance, I have a sprained ankle, which happened because I was running down the stairs and failed to notice there was something else there. So I hit it which can happen to anyone, but I am more prone to this kind of accident. So it is related, It can be dangerous because people with ADHD are more connected to lethal accidents. There are more people with ADHD in prisons. There are more people with ADHD, with addictions, drug addictions, and other addictions because when unrecognized and untreated, it does lead to feeling inadequate. It does lead to despair, and it's just very difficult to cope if you don't even know what is going on. Why am I different and why can't I do what everyone else is doing? At the same time, Like albinism it can be attractive. ADHD can be better at other things. We're usually more creative. We have wider imaginations, we're more energetic. Obviously there are many more entrepreneurs with ADHD. There are upsides, but only if you're willing to accept everything together. It's first and foremost difference in brain wiring, which is why anyone claiming there's a cure is a charlatan. And there are many charlatans. I will not name them, but there are, and many parents fall for that, for their kids. But in another way, even if there was a cure, I don't think I would ever wanna take it because ADHD is part of me. I wouldn't be me without my ADHD. It's how my brain is wired. I mentioned I actually call it, ADDED because first of all, I don't like it. It's so long. It's just a chain of letters. It's not even a word. And it's not an attention deficit. It's a difference in attention. Because the opposite of not being able to concentrate is hyper focusing, not being able to stop your attention. And that is also a part of ADDED of being ADDED. And I actually think we're just often, we get the complaint that we are too much, we are too loud, we move too much. We say too much. We speak too much, and that it's true. But we are also, well, if you can concise it too creative or we have ADDED creativity, ADDED imagination. So there are so many things, good and bad that we have more than other people. So it's just, It's a difference. It's a difference. Which I wouldn't want to change in myself. I certainly understand people who would. But unfortunately, or fortunately, it's impossible at the moment.

AO: 17:10

Have you ever taken any meds for it?

Adva: 17:13

Okay. I'll start with the general and then go to my personal experience. So generally speaking, the meds do not cure ADHD. There's a problem with dopamine reception. I've heard that it's either too much or too less. I'm not sure which is the current research on it, but it's not going where it should be. So it's either the reception is too efficient or not efficient enough. I'm not sure. But for some reason or other, there's not enough dopamine present, in our brains at any given moment. And this is why we always seek anything, all sorts of feelings and constant The thing about dopamine is this is what makes us feel good, and this is actually the basis of why we find it difficult to concentrate on things that are not interesting and challenging, repetitive. That's very boring to a brain, that seeks immediate pleasure, which is the dopamine So other people can get it from promising rewards to themselves. If I'll do this, then later I'll get to do this pleasant thing. I'll watch TV or whatever, do something that they like. But for us, it doesn't work because later does not exist. We live in the now. Anything that is not now is simply not now. It doesn't matter if it comes in a year or in two minutes or in 15 minutes, it's, our brains just don't recognize it. And so rewards don't really help. And the all the meds do is they work on this reception of dopamine, which fixes it for a few hours. And the whole thing about these meds, there's truth and not so much truth to it. The truth part is that it can be very difficult. Some of the meds to some of the people can cause very unpleasant side effects, but it's very easy to stop this. So if you notice that you've taken some sort of me and it's not working well with you and it's causing you to feel bad, you can just stop it. And I actually. I don't think I've heard of a case where this didn't help because it's not even a medicine where you need to stop gradually. You can just stop right now. So this shouldn't really be a problem. You just have to be aware of the fact that it's not working well with you and go to your doctor and try to replace it for something else. The not so true is that this is a dangerous drug, that it's addictive when actually it's not dangerous, it's not addictive, but it may in some cases with some people just not be right. So they need to stop it or change it. Now, my personal experience has not been so good, but for another reason, I did try, but the whole process is so un ADHD friendly because I needed to go to the doctor. So that means setting an appointment. That means I need to remember to call at the right time because they don't answer all the time. And usually I remember at the middle of the night, which is not helpful. This is a thing that could have a very simple solution. If I could set my appointments all online. People make things very simpler for people like me. But it isn't like that in many places. And then I need to go to the doctor, get the referral, when I leave the doctor with the referral, I still need to go to the pharmacy and get the meds, and then I need to go home and remember to take it for two or three weeks, which is, for me, it's the greatest proof that this thing can never be addictive. What sort of addict can forget to take their drug? But with this meds, you need to remember to take them when the whole problem is you don't remember anything. So this can be very difficult. And then you need to see if there's any difference. And if there isn't, you need to come back and do the whole process again. and it almost never happens in the first or second or even third attempt because they also begin usually with very low dosage. and you never know, there are several kinds of meds. You never know what's going to work for you. So this can take month, and in my personal case, I just I couldn't persevere it was too much for me. So I gave up, and I really don't know if I could or couldn't find any med that will help me. The one I took just didn't influence me at all. So it wasn't good. It wasn't bad, I just didn't feel it.

AO: 21:39

So what have you tried instead? Or maybe you haven't tried anything instead.

Adva: 21:44

I have to say, it's all been actually. My world view, how I look at it, and what I expect for myself and how much, if at all, I care about what other people expect from me. Because this made the whole difference. I realized that so many things that people expect me to do or that I expect myself to do without even feeling that I'm expecting myself to do that I I shouldn't really do. It's just if it's too difficult sometimes it's not worth it. And so there were times when my house was in total chaos and I accepted it because if it was too difficult at that time to keep it in order, then what actually makes it so important it didn't. And that was fine with me. And that's just a small example because it works with everything. Like remembering to phone people back in a certain. Timeframe. So if somebody called me, I have to phone them back today or tomorrow, because otherwise I'm just being, I don't know, I'm being rude. They will think I don't like them, whatever. Okay. But all of this is going on in my head and I can change that. So I can maybe just text them and say, Sorry I didn't have time. Maybe I'll try next week. Or I started to tell the truth. I said, I'm sorry, I don't remember although I do care, please remind me, because my mind is just too busy. So it's very difficult to explain to everyone because many people, like you said, don't even know what this is. They can't really accept that you forget because you forget, Because you don't care. It's not that like they, they don't think you're doing this on purpose, but they can't really understand how can this be if this is not on purpose. So they would tell you, Oh yeah, I understand. But then they will think and you can see that they think they're thinking, but she doesn't care because if she did care, she would call me. It's not possible. I wouldn't do that. So if she does it, and it's not true, So for some people I can just be honest, tell the truth and say, Okay, if you want me to remember, you need to remind me five times a day. As much as it takes, just remind me because I will not remember. And for others, I just say, I'm sorry, I'm really busy at the time, so please get back to me whenever, when I think I have the time. And some people I just gave up on because they couldn't understand and it was just taking too much energy from me

AO: 24:14

we are getting better with understanding things that we didn't used to understand so much before. I always think when people say, Oh no, but we are getting better, I always come out with things such as, well, the suffragettes didn't sit around saying, you know, we are getting better. We just have to, we just have to be better now. I'm just quite, I'm quite impatient for change.

Adva: 24:35

I think it is going to change in the coming decades. It's going to take time. It is a rather new phenomenon, and still actually a lot of the info is outdated. A lot of the experts are giving wrong advice. It is even coming from experts or so-called experts, which I believe do not have ADHD themselves. And so they do not understand how this works. So you will always hear this advice to get a planner, set a reminder, all of these things, which we always do, we try to do. It just doesn't work. Use Pomodoro technique. Probably know that when you set a timer for 25 minutes, work, five minutes break or whatever, these are all great tips for anyone who can deal with consistency, but we can't do consistency so it doesn't work. So it could work today, it will not work tomorrow, and we will not understand why and will feel guilty about it. And that is not the reason. The thing is that any technique that helps is great, and we also need to take into account may not be great and not help at all tomorrow, and that is also okay, and then we just need to find another technique and maybe next week it will help again, it's okay, but instead we get all of this advice to find a strategy and stick to it and it just can't work. it's not that, The thing that helped me the most was to understand that today is not going to be like yesterday and it's not going to be like tomorrow. And even in two hours from now, my mood can change and whatever works now is not going to work or the other way around. And it's fine. it's a constant line of ups and downs with changing heights and troughs and it's fine as long as I accept it. It's actually helping me a lot. This understanding is the best one that I've gained over the years because I know now that whenever I'm down, I will go up again. it could be later today, it could be tomorrow, it could be next week, which is a bit unpleasant, but it will come. It doesn't hurt my ups because when I'm up, nothing hurts me. So it's fine and really this understanding, which is why I meant that changing my framework, my state of mind is actually the best help I could ever get. It's just how I look at things. So I think this is better than, well, not better than meds probably. Cuz some people say that they're helping them, they're working with them and it's really changed their lives. But I still think it's necessary as an overall paradigm to understand ourselves and how we can fit in the work. I did want to add about before it does sound all optimistic and stuff and I'm, I was thinking of people with ADHD who might listen and think, okay, it's easier for her to speak because for some reason she managed to arrange her life in a way that fits her. But I'm stuck in this job and they're going to fire me because I'm late or whatever. we have serious problems really hindering in everything in life, and that is true. I still think that. Outlook is the first thing we need to change. Because, for instance, I know now that I cannot be an employee. I just can't, unless I can be really free with my time with arranging my time or if it's okay when I'm late because I will be late. And if deadlines can be arranged together with me, otherwise I can just not do this. it's not going to work whichever way. And some people are just not aware of that. So it's true, even when you are aware, it's sometimes it's going to be very difficult, sometimes impossible to change, but sometimes the possibilities are there, but people are just not aware that they need to make this change. And in this case, and in this case, probably only this can really help.

AO: 28:32

I know that it's Black History Month. When I turn on the TV there's something that comes up saying Black History Month. I feel like people should know it's ADHD awareness month

Adva: 28:44

think so too. I guess it's probably a matter of marketing. objectively speaking, there are far more black people than ADHD people. It's about between five to 10% of the population. So it's a smaller part of population, but still, I suppose it's marketing and stigma because it is a part of mental illness, although I don't regard it that's that way, but it is, or at least it's a neuro divergence, so it's something which has to do with the brain, with something mental. So even if you don't regard it as an illness, which I don't, it's still belongs in the room, which people would, not so much like to get closer to. I think it's still a problem. It's like if somebody is diabetic, they don't have a stigma also. But if you have ADHD, it's that and the stigma, and like you said, there's still many people think there's over diagnosis which is terrible because you express a problem and somebody tells you, Oh no, no, you don't have the problem, What, how do I deal with this?

AO: 29:50

I think you're right. It's a minority in comparison to black people. But I don't know. I always just feel like every minority group should still have an equal voice. In fact, really, I feel like every group should have an equal voice, I dunno. If I live in a world that doesn't exist and I'm not sure if I will live in a world which actually. Represents what I feel like it should represent at some stage. I feel like every group should have they should all have the same representation,

Adva: 30:23

first of all, I wish both of us to live in this world like you described but I forgot to say in the beginning, You asked me why I wanted to be on this podcast, and I copied the description that you put in because I really loved it. You said, I only have one purpose, which is to give other people hope, knowing that we have the strength to get through. And now you reminded me of this and I connected with this so strongly because over the years I have met other people with ADHD or parents of children with ADHD and they did tell me, You are so true, changing the way you look at it, changing your perspective, realizing you're expecting things from yourself that are. You cannot, and you should not expect them from yourself. They're silly and they just hold you back. And if you change your perspective, you can change so much. And that is actually the, my hope of helping other people who maybe listen to change.

AO: 31:19

do you mind telling me about the book

Adva: 31:21

Yeah, absolutely. First of all, I think I care most about, I'm not sure well in equal parts. First, is to show an optimistic and. Positive view of ADHD. But the second, at least as important, is not to be educational, not to be didactic, but to be a good fantasy story. Because there are especially children's books who try to be didactic and show a hero child with ADHD. And look, they can do that and they can do that. And it's very nice and it's very important because kids read that and they think, Okay, I can do that too. But it's very different if you try to write a book. I'm not sure actually if I'm going to market it as adult or young adult, whichever. it's just a marketing question. So it doesn't really affect the way I'm writing. But either way, these are not children and it's different. If I try to lecture them, they're not going to read it. And I agree. I wouldn't read a book like that. First of all, it has to be good fantasy story. And it works great for me because the whole idea came from the fact that ADHD affects everything so much that I feel it's a different existence. It's like a parallel world. And this is my book actually. it's an ADHD fantasy world. And I wouldn't say more than that because it's going to be too long and a spoiler. So it's just an ADHD fantasy world because I think it's sort of a different world. Because if I have a great world, a great fantasy world, and great characters that readers can relate to, and of course they do have ADHD and the whole world and hold plots even are affected by it, then that's enough. I don't need to put anything else in there. And I can stress on the fantasy, on the story being good story and good characters. So that's part of my aim in it to be, to normalize it in a sense. Although I don't like the word normal, because I think none of us actually is normal in any normal sense.

AO: 33:31

Me neither. I don't like that word

Adva: 33:33

each of us are different, and I don't like that word. but I dunno how to say normalize in any other ways. maybe bring it closer to people's understanding, Or awareness. it's a sort of way of raising awareness but not shouting it. the idea is to make people with ADHD see the magic in it, in being the way we are and people who don't have ADHD getting to understand us a little better and. See also the magic in being whoever you are, because it doesn't mean that other people do not have the magic. It just means it's different and it's fine. if people were to understand, I, I'm thinking of a classroom set up where the children who move around in class or make noises or forget to listen, they're perceived as the problem children. they're the problem and they're not the problem. The problem is, if we are honest, the problem is demanding from children to sit for six, seven hours each day, five, six days a week, 12 years at the same, in the same place in a chair. And listen, this is the not normal thing and this is the problem. And if we were just to change, Perception and think, what do we actually want to achieve here? Is it, does it matter so much that these kids follow these restraints or is it actually more important that they, a few less things or even very different things? Is the demand to sit and be quiet and concentrate so central or maybe actually it could be much better if they stood even or wore earphones on a low volume that will allow them to listen to the music and the teacher at the same time or speak up. Or be more active. it actually, some of these things could work much better for all kids. And I know some schools are trying and some teachers are trying and some are really doing great. It's just that in general, the system is still so old and difficult being aware that some children, some adults are different and their minds work differently and it's not that they don't want to, it's just that they can't, could lead to really tiny changes sometimes that can make a huge difference within the whole of society. Oh, I have good example actually. Audiobook. Which in Norway was thought of for people with ADHD, but it's a great help for many of them. I'm not one of them because like I said, I have a problem with audio. My mind starts wondering, but for many people it's a lifesaver in terms of reading. They could never read, they could never read a print book or an ebook, but they can listen to audiobooks and it's a great, it's a small change, which makes a great difference. And for so many populations, also, of course, blind people or vision impaired, but for so many groups of people.

AO: 36:48

I do want one thing before you go, because I like to end with whoever I'm speaking to, to end on something positive just for the people who are listening. So if you can just give one positive, actually as many as you want, positive messages to anyone out there who is going through or has been through some of the things that you may have encountered.

Adva: 37:11

For this request for positive notes because it's really what I wanna do. I want to let anyone with ADHD or any other neuro difference, actually anyone, but was speaking specifically about people with ADHD right now know that they're amazing just as they are. They're not broken, and there is nothing at all wrong with them. And there is always a way to arrange your life better. Although sometimes, of course it may be difficult because of other reasons, but we first need to understand that there are many options. it's one thing I can never understand about kids in school. They're supposed to sit there as if. This prepares them in some way to the real world. This talk about the real world. The real world is so diverse. You can do anything in the real world. So of course, unfortunately not everyone has every opportunity, but even those who have, don't always take advantage of all the opportunities they do have open because you need to grab opportunities. Nothing is going to wait for us. And it just grabbing it is a viable option. So many of us are stuck in whatever society put into our minds about ourselves, about our abilities, and it's just wrong. And if we feel it's different, then we are correct. So anyone that feels, But I should be able to do this, it already means you can do this. It already means they have the ability. It's just internalizing what society told us. So I would say daring is daring on the one hand and ignoring what other people say. On the other hand only the negative people, of course, I think that people going through those absolutely know what is going on, unless of course they are undiagnosed. And then it's very difficult to get to all these people and try to tell them, there's really something different that you have to know about yourself, no matter how old you are, it will always make a huge difference. First, you sort of relive your life in your mind and understand yourself and your whole life differently. And it's a grieving state when you start to think, Oh, so I wasn't really lazy. I wasn't really stupid. I wasn't really doing anything on purpose. I just couldn't. So on the one hand, it's good to know that on the other hand, many people think. Just imagine where I might have been if I hadn't had it. I just chose to took the other way and to focus on moving forward now that I have that knowledge going with whatever I can do, whatever I do best, whatever fits me. And I think most people can do that. While not everyone can do everything, most people can do that. Focus on whatever we still have to do, even though it takes some time. You do need to let yourself, that sort of grieving time and after that step forward.

AO: 40:17

Thank you so much.

Adva: 40:19

Thank you. Have a lovely afternoon, evening. Bye. Bye.

AO: 40:23

Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Chataholic. I will be back next week joined by Amanda, who will be sharing her inspirational journey and her story. And in the meantime, I don't think I have anything else to add other than ADHD Awareness Month.