Transforming Lives: A Parent's Journey to Support Their Transgender Child

****CONTENT WARNNG****
Episode discusses youth suicide

This episode I spoke to Dr. Lulu  who shares her personal experiences and challenges arising from the intersecting identities she carries.

With doors closed due to societal biases, she has taken it upon herself to build her own doors and leave them open for others.

Dr. Lulu also opens up about her personal journey of accepting her child's sexuality, highlighting the responsibility she feels to tell the truth and speak out. The high rate of suicide among transgender individuals due to parental rejection is a prominent concern that she addresses, emphasizing the importance of parental acceptance and support.

With an unwavering commitment to challenging stereotypes and misconceptions, Dr. Lulu encourages genuine curiosity and learning, urging individuals to educate themselves through accessible resources like search engines. Her ultimate goal is to help parents accept and support their LGBTQ+ children, fostering a society of love and acceptance.

Don't forget to subscribe to the Your story, Your life  podcast and hit that notification bell to never miss an enlightening conversation. And remember, our goal is to foster empathy, understanding, and growth through these stories. So, let's gather around the virtual table, pull up a seat, and listen as Dr Lulu shares their extraordinary journey of transformation and support for their transgender child.

Please note transcription accuracy may vary.

Music by - Neffex - don't want to let myself down
Neffex - A year go

https://www.dr-lulu.com
https://www.facebook.com/askdoctorlulu/
https://womeninpeds.com/faculty-lulu/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Raise-Well-Rounded-Children-Lulus/dp/1733751203
https://www.amazon.co.uk/item_name/dp/B08JK2SM9R/ref=sr_1_19?crid=4G9MSUIZ834Y&keywords=dr+lulu&qid=1694103756&s=books&sprefix=dr+lulu%2Cstripbooks%2C69&sr=1-19
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/suicide-pages-with-dr-lulu-the-podcast/id1473351437?i=1000515162415
https://www.instagram.com/stories/latinforhappiness_md/3185987039153327876/

Transcript

AO: 0:39

Hi, hi, hi, welcome to another episode of their story, their voice, So if someone came to you that you loved and you cared about, and they said to you I think I'm transgender. What would your reaction be? there is an increase the people who are part of the trans community being attacked. I read an article on The Guardian, I will put the link in where. In Australia, because I don't really mention Australia that much, but people were attacked during World's Pride No Pride is the platform to celebrate this community, to let them celebrate without being scared of being attacked or victimized now I'm on the roll And I know that there was the shooting that happened in Nashville. trans terrorism started trending on Twitter. that one person who I can't speak about because I don't know anything about them, this isn't what the trans community represent. They're not representing trans terrorism. But one of the articles I read said that trans people are now concerned that because that's trending, is that going to make non trans people? then want to attack them as a form of retaliation. They're not responsible for the actions of one individual. It was one individual.

Dr Lulu: 2:23

If you remove the word black, if you say black trans child, if you remove the word trans, it's black child. If you say black autistic child, remove autistic, it's black child. If you say black epileptic child, remove epileptic, it's black child. It's a kid. It's a child. And even if it's a phase, so be it.

AO: 2:53

Hi, Dr. Lulu. I want to welcome you firstly want to say thank you, thank you, thank you for saying yes to coming on. And I would like to start with, would you tell me a bit about you and why did you agree to actually come on?

Dr Lulu: 3:13

Oh, thank you so much for the, for, first of all, for the invitation and, um, thank you for seeing me and for seeing my message. It's relatively polarizing in the sense that everyone wants to come and hate on the LGBT people. And there's this one Black, Igbo, Catholic, Nigerian woman. saying no, don't do that. And so some people will want to go against the grain, some people will want to follow the grain. I mean, whatever floats your boat. So when I saw, I think you had maybe sent a message, and I was like, it's like, oh, it's like a, like a dropped call. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. They've got a Nigerian name. I'm a very curious person. So I wanted to know, that's why I reached out. I said, um, you know, hello, did you want to reach me? What was going on? And, any opportunity I get to educate I'll always, always take it because I do believe that I know a little bit more than many people. And if I didn't, we wouldn't have all this, you know, That's a lot of these negative rhetoric out there about the LGBT community. So I've taken it upon myself to use my voice to educate people as much as I can about the facts and about my own personal lived experience, both as a queer person, as a queer Nigerian, and as a mother of not just any child, but a transgender child who I 100% support and affirm can that just on its own. It's like everyone's like, what? And so I want people to know, yes, absolutely. It's something that can be done and you can do with your full chest like we say in Nigeria. So that's why I came on the show. I just, any chance I get to educate people or to have a conversation where I'm learning, you're learning, but maybe I know a little bit more about this than you. As a pediatrician, as a mom, and as a queer person, and as an immigrant, and as a person who lives in Texas, where I've had to go to the governor's mansion and to the capitol to testify not once or twice or three times, I feel like I definitely have something to say,

AO: 5:23

I wanted to speak to you because initially, I didn't know you were Nigerian. I just knew that there's so much going on with the transgender community, the LGBTQ plus community, and I know that there seems to be everywhere. It's not just America, it's everywhere. There seems to be an intolerance. I wanted someone who could, Educate me because yes, I think I'm tolerant to everyone, but not everyone is, and I just wanted to speak to someone who was an advocate for that community, which you are, but I'm going to get to my point, which is, you mentioned your heritage. you mentioned about being queer, what was that like for you being a Nigerian coming and saying, I'm Nigerian and actually I think my sexuality doesn't fit in that nice tidy box that Nigerians love to have.

Dr Lulu: 6:32

Maybe we should qualify that with nice, tidy Christian box, or nice, tidy religious box. And one of the things I say is, almost a parallel, the more religious people are, the more homophobic they are. However, if Jesus was to walk on the earth today, my guess is that Jesus would hang out with the gay. Jesus was a radical. I don't know about Mohammed because I'm not a Muslim, but I think maybe Mohammed as well. But Jesus specifically was a radical. Jesus was not obedient. Okay? He was not obedient in people's eyes. He was obedient to the Father according to the Bible, but he was not obedient. Otherwise they wouldn't have put him to death. They thought he was a rebel. They thought he brought Some left wing SHIT to the land. It's like, who is this guy saying he's the son of God? What? Put, crucify him! And release Barnabas, who was a brigand. Oh, no, no, we want Barnabas. But wait a minute, didn't he kill people? We want Barnabas. So, so this is not a new thing.

AO: 7:41

Okay, so I didn't know who Barnabas was. I asked someone who is also a Christian and an avid reader of the Bible who was Barnabas. anyho, point is Barnabas was a criminal during the time of Jesus who was involved in activities such as robbery and pillages. Pillages is a word. So, just in case anyone is wondering who was this man, who people said, release him, kill Jesus and release him. So, I get her point. Her point was, really, they would rather release the criminal who was in jail, who was involved in robberies and Pillages. Pillages? I'm going to stick with it. Pillages, as opposed to not killing Jesus. That's the information that I got.

Dr Lulu: 8:40

Following what they call, um, Alright, in my case at least, being the voice of dissent is not a, it's not a new thing. I'm not trying to say I'm Jesus, but I might as well be. Because when Jesus came, he hung out with the prostitutes. He hung out with the tax freaking collectors. Now, he never ever one day judged them. He said, wait, I'm going to write on the wall, on the floor, on the ground. I'm going to just mind my business. And whenever I look up, I want to see whichever one of you who is without sin, go ahead and strike the first turn. I'll be over here writing on the floor. And then he looks up, I say, wait, where's everyone? No one, no one threw a stone at you? So it's not today, it didn't, we didn't start this whole everyone follow the leader kind of thing, it didn't start today. It did not begin today. They made a freaking crown of thorns and tore his robes and cast lots for his clothes. He was not popular. He couldn't have been put to death if he had been popular. He was not a mainstream kind of guy. And I'm not talking about necessarily me being mainstream or not. I'm talking about what's right. The most important thing is I carried a child in my stomach. for nine months and breastfed that child for two years. There's nothing anybody can tell me about that kid, period. Now, there's a lot for me to learn. And that's why my third TEDx talk is titled, Parenting as Students. Cause I want parents to learn from their kids. When you come into parenting, like you know everything, you make a lot of mistakes. If you don't believe me, try to get a toddler to eat their, I don't know, vegetables. I mean, this is not, this is not rocket science. And so, if you look up the definition of gender in the dictionary, there's nothing there about genitals. The definition of gender is a societal construct. It's something that changes with the times. In the old aristocratic days, men only wore pink. Only men wore heels. Only men wore wigs. And that's why today in the UK, the lawyers, the solicitors still have wigs. They don't do that anymore in America, but they are still, they're not less a lawyer than the ones who wear wigs. In the UK, behaviors, social adaptations change with time. In the eighties, when I was a teenager, you could not be found wearing a blouse without shoulder freaking pads. What? Where are you going without that with without your shoulder pads or leg warmers? Nobody does that anymore. Same thing with gender. Once upon a time, it was an abomination for a man to not wear heels. Today, only women wear heels, but if you go into medicine, which I have happened to have some expertise in, when we talk about XY chromosomes and XX chromosomes, We say that this person is a genetic male, because the words we use to describe XY chromosomes is boy, and XX chromosome is girl. But none of that has to do with your genitals. Your genitals are completely different. Now the hormones cause your genitals to develop a certain way, but that's all there is to it. Your genitals are related to your chromosomes. Not your gender, but gender specifically as an entity is a societal construct. I'm Nigerian. So women should be seen and not heard. Maybe not even seen at all. So I have never been the kind of woman that you don't see. Are you kidding me? I'm the first daughter. I came out a rebel. And so when my kid said they are trans, I said, you know, I want to learn more. I wasn't always jumping for joy. Yes, I want to learn more because it's my child. I have a decision to make. My kid has two parents. The other parent was like, My child is not going to be such and such. I said, Really? You think you get to decide? Do you think God makes mistakes? Everybody wants to say, God doesn't make mistakes. Because you're not transgender. You don't know what it's like to be transgender. I'm not transgender. So I can't tell you that you're not, if you say you are. And you being trans or not, honestly, doesn't affect me in any way at all. And so let's go deep down and look at what is really the problem. The problem is intolerance of somebody else. Once upon a time it was black people. Oh, you're black. then you have no rights. But wait, if you're not Black, you can't tell me anything about being Black. And yet, people wanted to say, if you're Black, take the back door. If you're a woman, um, I mean, right now they have the Roe versus Wade, I don't know if y'all have that in the UK. a woman does not even have any rights to her body anymore. I mean, when are they going to stop? A Black person cannot marry a White person. there's always going to be something.

AO: 14:13

I'm listening to you and it's your attitude is, it's so refreshing. And this is what I say to people when, because in the UK recently, last weekend we had pride. So,

Dr Lulu: 14:31

25, 000 people were marching on London Square or something. I thought that was so neat.

AO: 14:36

I love it. When I asked different people that I knew, and I had different, just different reactions, someone said to me, why are you so passionate about this? And I said, do you know why? Because I'm a woman, and I'm black, so I know, historically, I have, my group that I identify with, have also been isolated.

Dr Lulu: 15:04

yes!

AO: 15:06

just based on

Dr Lulu: 15:07

Sex. Exactly. Thank

AO: 15:09

didn't choose to be female. I didn't choose to be black.

Dr Lulu: 15:13

choose to be Nigerian. I didn't choose to be Igbo. I didn't choose to have black eyes. I didn't choose to have a Vajayjay. We didn't choose any of that. And that's why when people say, Oh, it's a lifestyle or, Oh, it's a choice. When I told my dad when I was 16, I told my dad, I said, daddy, I like girls and I like boys. My dad was like, yeah, you know, it's just a phase. You're going to grow out of it. And you know what, that's all he knew. I'm not going to fault him for that. You know, once you know something, Maya Angelou said first you do your best, then when you know better, you do better. So if I didn't, if my father didn't know what he didn't know, and he was telling me based on what he knew, that's understandable. It's just like a child telling their mother who has a third grade education, Mom, I want to go to become a pilot or something. Your mom who has a third grade education is going to be like, why do you want to do that? But you have a job already. You're getting paid very well working at the, Target. Why do you want to get an MBA? Why do you want to mess it up? Because people who love you always want what's best for them. And what's best for them is you remaining the same. This is what I'm used to. This is what I know you as. Why are you trying to change? Nobody wants anybody that they know to change because that's a threat to them. It's like, wait. I have to now learn the new you, right? Same thing. My father didn't know enough. So I gave him the props and I gave him the benefits of the doubt until I looked up bisexuality. Huh? 68% of black women are bisexual. I'm like, Oh, I didn't know that. My father didn't know that. Most people don't know that. And that's why the work I do is so important because I help to change the stereotypes. to bust the misconceptions, to help to redirect, and actually ask you questions like, Why is that a problem for you? I had a guy that I picked up yesterday and he said, So about this transgender thing, I don't really like it. That's what he said to me, a mother of a trans kid. He said, So, um, tell me more. I said, That's actually classified information. If you tell me you don't like my child, I'm not going to tell you anything else you haven't earned. the right for me to tell you because are you transgender? He said, no. I said, then you don't have an opinion about it. You don't know what it's like to be transgender. It's like somebody being white and asking me, say, I don't like black people, but tell me about that. I'm not going to tell you because you haven't earned the right to know about black people. If you're coming with that mindset that you don't like it. I don't have the bandwidth to teach 8 billion people who don't really want to know something. If you want to know and you're truly being honest, Dr. Google, look it up yourself. And then ask questions with sincerity. You know how if somebody asks you a question, you can tell what their intention is. It will come through. The energy will come through. People who are asking you out of pure curiosity because they really truly don't know and those who already have a chip Like yeah, tell me there's a difference And so I lean into answering those who I think truly Want to know because maybe they are thinking about their child Because my ultimate reason for doing the work is for that one child Who is praying for their parents to hear me say it's okay to accept your child. Here's how to do it that makes any sense.

AO: 18:56

it makes, it makes a lot of sense. I, for one, I can only speak for myself. In the UK, we are, I, I feel like in my world we're quite good because they have programs on and documentaries and when I Thank you. watch these. It breaks my heart that people are treated or viewed in a certain way because of, because of who they are. And I can't get past that and my partner will say to me, well, you can't, you can't save everyone. I'm not asking to save everyone, but I am asking for us to do better by one another, do better by other people.

Dr Lulu: 19:57

you know what though, you stand at the intersectionality of black woman, British, maybe an indigenous name, just based on that alone, enough doors are already going to be shut in your face. So you see why I don't have the bandwidth to force a door open when I can just build mine and then leave it open for those who really need the shade to come in. Because the earth was made for all of us. Certain people think it was theirs, like they own the land. One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life was somebody saying, They discovered Africa. How, how do you discover a place where human beings already live there? The pyramids that were built in Africa have never been able to be reproduced anywhere in today's world. And then you say you, you discovered America. People were living there. You didn't discover it. You traveled there and saw them. you didn't create it. So it's a mentality that I honestly don't have the time of day to try to start correcting. It's too, some people are too far gone. And luckily for us, enough people are beginning to revert back to traditional religion. They're now seeing that what the Abrahamic religion is teaching is. A lot of falsehoods is about subjugating women, women being the underdog, um, women being like, you know, you just don't say anything, you have no rights. It's fundamentally so wrong. And that's why you feel it the same way because you stand at an intersectionality of at least black and woman, right? And then your name is indigenous and I applaud you for keeping, just like me, I keep my name. It's like, there's nothing I can do about it. I'm not going to apologize for who I am. Like, I didn't choose to be freaking gay. Once upon a time, I used to pray to God and I said, God, please, don't just, don't let my child be gay. I was like, God, please. And then God was like, Ooh, you think it's just gay? I got news for you. How about trans? And I was like, Why me? And then God said, Why not you? If not you, then who? You're a loud mouth anyway. You go over there and tell people, tell people the truth. And that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing, or that is what I am trying to do anyway.

AO: 22:51

I do want to know through what mechanisms are you trying to just make life easier for? your child for other children who are trans, are lesbian, queer, what are you doing to try and make their path slightly easier?

Dr Lulu: 23:14

So the first thing I'm doing as a normal human being, as a citizen of the world, is accepting them first. Like I just accept them as they are. And it helps that I'm a physician. So I've seen a lot of sick kids. I've seen a lot of kids who I've, I've lost a couple of kids to trigger warning, suicide, right? I mean, I've seen people at their worst and I've learned to just like, just give everything that I can to them. So that they can just feel like somebody sees them. There's nothing as beautiful as feeling seen. That's what I said to you at the beginning of this interview. I said, thank you for seeing my message and thinking it worthy of coming on your podcast. You didn't have to do this. So believe it or not, you are even doing what I'm doing by just holding space. For me, as a Black parent, as a Black queer parent, as a Black queer immigrant parent, as a Black queer immigrant parent of a trans child, you're already holding space for me and helping my message to be heard. So the first thing I did was to see them and hear them. After I got past my own shock, because I was like, wait, My dad was wrong about me. I thought my dad knew everything, but my dad is just as human as I am. He didn't know everything. So once I realized, okay, my dad, I said, Daddy, it's been 26 years and it's, the phase is not phasing out. I realized, okay, because I'm queer, I need to just come out and own all of me. And the only way to own all of me is to tell people about it. Not that, Oh, hi, how are you? I'm queer. No, I'm just meaning like, I'm not hiding that. It's like, I can't hide my skin. I can't hide my locked hair. I can't hide my accent. I don't want to. So, but then when my child came and took it to the next level, I'm like, Oh. Now I have to even find out about this transgender people. I was just like everybody else. Why do they have to be so trans? Then I had to ask myself, wait, wait, wait. Why do I have to be so judgmental? What is it about the transgender person that's making me uncomfortable? You know what it is? They are daring to live their lives. Out loud, authentically. And when you see somebody living their life out loud, authentically, it reflects on all the parts of you that you're hiding. when you've been given work to do, you do it. So, I've been given this work to do, to see other people as they are, and then help other people who want to be helped, to see themselves as they are. when I coach parents, the biggest thing I have to coach them on is Accepting themselves. That's the biggest thing. You're like, Oh, why am I a parent of a, but why me? And so it's not so much as accepting your child. It's accepting yourself that I am a parent of a transgender child, or I'm a parent of a queer child because We've been socialized, all of us, like my father, to think that there's something wrong with being queer. But that's why it hurts me that much more when Black people are homophobic. Because we already know what it's like to be the underdog. We know what it's like for people to say, You are a slave. We already know what that's like. But that's to tell you how much trauma We've gone through to the point that African Americans will accept their child for doing anything in the world except being homosexual. But guess what, though? If you go to the Harvard University Library, you will see where it's documented in black and white that once upon a time, Igbo women took wives. You will see all the countries of Africa that once upon a time accepted same sex, same gender unions. What the Caucasian people came and did was, Oh, your religion is bad. It's worshipping the devil. It's not pure, your nose is too wide, your skin is too tan, you are too, your hips are too wide, this is the epitome of beauty, skinny, straight, no curves, you're too curvy, you know, they told us all these things as they were stealing our gold, our arts and our crafts, right, took it to their country and told us we're no good and we bought it, Hook, line, and sinker. So tell me, who is the person who is making the mistake now? The person who says, Wait, Black is beautiful. Black is good enough. My child is fantastic. My child's gender is only like 1% of who my child is. And I choose to see everything else about my child. Or you that wants to know about what's my child's genital. So who's the person now that is weird?

AO: 28:31

when I knew I was speaking to you, I spoke to some of my Nigerian friends and said, okay, well, what would you do if with young children, what would you do if your child came out And only one of them said to me, I would just have to accept it because what else can I do? One of them definitely said I would disown him and. actually one of my white friends also said she would disown her daughter and in my head I thought who are you people? I don't think I I know you.

Dr Lulu: 29:04

what it is, is these people, honestly, they might never, ever, ever tell you that they themselves might be afraid that they might themselves be LGBT. If you look at the literature, you see that the most intense homophobic people are closeted. The most, like, look it up. The most intensely homophobic people are closeted themselves. It's called internalized homophobia. It's a thing, okay? But what it is, is that they make it mean something about them. That's why I said the work I do with parents is get them to do the self acceptance bit. They're making it mean something, just fill in the blank about they themselves, my child is, my child is, but my own child has enough power, as much power to make your child gay as your child has as much power to make my child straight. If hanging out with gay people makes people gay, then, my friend, hanging out with straight people should also make people straight. I mean, let's, let's, it goes both ways. And that's why it makes no sense, right? In today's world where there's, everyone is so homophobic, why would anyone say, okay, I want to be trans. And, um, can I have that with fish and chips? Nobody chooses that kind of thing, and that's why it's counterintuitive for you to hate on someone who is being who they are. I have blue eyes, and today we're gonna kill all the Isn't that what Hitler did? Like, you can try all you want, after 10 months, you know what's gonna happen? After 40 weeks, there'll be brand new gays being born. Because homosexuals are created by heterosexuals. So after you can kill all of us today, incinerate every last one of us, let's wait for nine months or 40 weeks. However you want to call it. There'll be brand new babies being born and some of them will be gay. Just because you don't allow your child to transition. Like I did that when my mom was coming to visit when I told my kids, I said, please don't paint your nails. I don't want Nana to see your nails painted. I really don't want that. I did all I could, but that doesn't stop the child from being who they are. one of the books I contributed in is called, The Mom's truth The title of my section is, Stop Acting Like a Girl. Cause that's what I told my kid, All the time. Non stop. Because deep inside, something inside of me knew. A parent always knows. So they can disown their kids all they want. There's a reason why the highest rate of suicide is amongst transgender people. You think they will kill themselves because they're just faking? Or they will kill themselves because they're just copying their friends? Who do you know will wanna say, I'm gonna kill myself? They kill themselves because of the deep... Betrayal, that rejection does a steep psychic pain that the rejection of your parent does. That is why they have the high rate of suicide That is why I will not, on my watch, look the other way when a child would rather jump to their death. I have to find out from the parent what's wrong with you. What is wrong with you?

AO: 32:54

That is something I actually did want to ask you and this I have to ask you because I know from looking at your website how suicide prevention amongst youths, you're an advocate for that and I know, one of your podcasts is around that and you've just explained to me why you're such, why you're such an advocate and I watched one of your, TEDx talks

Dr Lulu: 33:23

my first TED talk. I remember the little girl, I mean, I had so many stories, but I picked the one black girl, um, that people were watching the Facebook Live. They were watching her killing herself, and, and it was like, yeah, more views. That's just How far away from reality that the world has gotten. I don't know anything about that child's sexuality, but I do know from my own patients as a pediatrician. The high rate of suicide. Actually, that's why my ex wife was one that she said, You know what? I had a practice called Dr. Lulu's Youth Health Center, where I only took care of suicidal youth until the lockdown. And then I was like, I need to do something with my time. She was like, You know, why don't you work with the parents instead? All these kids telling you all these things. Their parents, their parents, their parents. What? Maybe it's the parents you need to work with. I was like, Huh! You're right. Maybe I should work with the parents. So a lot of parents think, they believe in their minds that they are the most important person in their child's life. And so if you've ever heard me give a talk, you know I always say, you're not the most important person in your child's life, but you're the most influential person in your child's life. So it is critical that you're careful the thoughts you allow into your head. And the actions you take from your thoughts. Because the truth is anyone who uses their own mouth to say they're going to disown their child doesn't know what it feels like to not have a child. They do not appreciate from whence a child comes. In Igbo language we say, Ebe se amungwe teka, meaning that the place where a child is born is very far away. And it's only for those who understand, that will understand the pain of a mother. The fact that people are looking for kids, and then someone will use their own mouth and say, I will disown my child because of XYZ. Whatever XYZ is. And you think that God is going to say, come home, my child, I love you, to you. The same God that created the universe and said with their own mouth that it is good. God on the seventh day looked at the creation and said, it is good and rested. If God said your child is good, how dare you say anything else? Now I understand if you don't understand it, that's okay. You seek the knowledge. My second TED Talk, I talk about it's easier for you to start from just knowing, rather than trying to understand. Because sometimes your own child doesn't even fully understand what's happening to them. And that's those words we're taking straight from that TED Talk. Sometimes your child doesn't even understand what is happening to them. Everyone's telling me I'm a boy but deep inside I feel like I'm a girl. They don't understand it. And that's why many kids don't tell anyone and they start cutting. and they start causing themselves pain so they can't live with themselves. It's a terrible thing. It's a terrible way to live. And then for the most important person, that's why I talk about the book, Things Fall Apart, a lot. The last scene where the little boy, Ikemefuna, runs to Okonkwo, Father! Father! Save me! They want to kill me! And because of what people will say, Bokonkwa raised up his hand and struck the kid down with his machete. That is what the parents are doing. That is what a parent is doing. When the child says, Mom, Mom, the world is coming against me because of something that I cannot help. And then you turn your back on the child. What do you want me to tell you? How do you want me to tell you that it's the worst thing to even think? Because I have been, as a pediatrician, I've watched people come in labor and their baby die. I have watched people come in labor and they die. Having a baby is not easy. If you have one, how dare you find fault in the child? You have no right. The kid is not yours actually. The kid is given to you for a time. For a little time. Then you get to decide what you wanna do. But don't say, Dr. Lulu didn't tell you. Ask yourself the tough question, What are you really afraid of? A lot of times the answer is, What people will say. Let me tell you, I have news for you. They're gonna say anyway. So you have to decide. Is it the kid that was given to you? Or is it other people who know the rate of suicide and they tell you to disown your child. And you do it. And that's your friend? That's your pastor? No. I can't. I cannot do that. Anyway.

AO: 39:00

Have you ever thought about just spreading this to, to Nigeria? I'll start smaller. I'll say other states in America, like just growing, what you're doing,

Dr Lulu: 39:16

So, as of three weeks ago, after all the series of deaths I had in my family, as of three weeks ago, I actually made a bold decision that one of the things that the deaths, five deaths in total as of last week Thursday, I said one of the things they are telling me is that I've been playing small. And so now I'm playing bigger. So what I'm doing now is working with organizations. and corporations and companies and helping teaching them the basics about LGBT. But my purpose, my focus is getting them to learn how to support parents at the workplace. Because I myself have been a victim of ostracization and rejection in my own inside family. And I realize that if I'm going through that, All the parents are going through that and because I work for myself and I have no place of work to go to per se, I realized what if the next parent whose mother, father, sister, brother, cousin, whatever turns their back on them, if they can turn to work to get some affirmation because when the parent is supported, The child is supported. And to answer your question, I was actually, I gave the keynote, the opening keynote address in Lagos Pride a month ago. there's a good, nice, strong body of pride in Lagos. well, I mean, you, I, you already know the things that you. um, like come around your area. Yeah. I mean, this is the work that I do. And so they reached out to me. I was like, sure. And the only reason I wasn't there in person is because this little guy graduated from high school the week after that. So I cannot be Nigeria doing an open keynote when my kid is about to graduate from high school. And as you know, his father passed away the next day. So I was like, why don't we do this by zoom? And I'm still getting messages to this day about, it was only 10 minutes, maybe. 11 minutes at the most. They were like, that was a powerful, you need to come in person next year. I was like, okay, we'll see. But yeah, there's a big Lagos pride. There's Pride Afrique, which is actually having their pride events. this week or next week, and I'm going to be one of the keynote speakers. So, I mean, there are people who are LGBT in Africa, because, I mean, it's everywhere. It's not an American thing, it's not a Lagos thing, it's not a, it's an everywhere thing. Yes, people who don't know any better or who are in the closet, they're screaming the loudest, but that doesn't change the fact that there are queer people everywhere. But yeah, I gave the opening keynote for Pride in Lagos. a month ago, on the 14th of, of, um, of June.

AO: 42:11

in my Western British life, I've just assumed that, so it sounds bad, but I've just assumed that Nigeria going to get there, get to a stage where they celebrate this group. So actually it's, I didn't know that. So that's good

Dr Lulu: 42:32

Yeah, and then there's Black UK Pride coming up in August, and I'm trying to squeeze myself in. And then Bissi Limmy, who is in the UK, is having an event in September for, and they're looking for as many diasporian queer people as possible in the UK, in London, and I'm going to see if I can squeeze my way in. Only that I'm moving in September, so it might be a little bit tricky, and I have a couple of speaking engagements for transgender people around here, but I'm going to see if I'm supposed to be the 23rd, I think, of September. I may have to just fly in and fly out kind of thing, um, to just so I can meet Bissi, because Bissi is actually one of my books. I talk about Bissi and I was like, oh my god, I get to meet him. Um, but yeah, there are lots of queer Nigerians who are doing things bigly. I mean, it's just, I believe that My next interview is going to be on CNN. I can already see it. I don't know who is going to interview me, but I know that's my next one. I've done the CBS this morning. I've done Oprah. I know it's coming, so I just, I don't want to push it. I don't want to force it. I'm going to let it happen naturally. But the message is going to get out there. Especially because I check off all those boxes of intersectional factors. That most, People don't. And I'm very, very thankful. The day I said I was going to become a pediatrician, now I know why. The day I said I was going to have my babies, now I know why. The day I said I was going to support my kid, now I know why. So it's expertise and a lived experience. It doesn't get any better. There's a knockout. One stop punch. So I'm very excited about what the future holds, especially with me working with companies now. It's got a 10x message, because I'm not working one on one anymore. I'm working with your organization. Tomorrow I'm going to be pitching at one of the clinics I used to work. They have 1, 000 employees. I'm I have an 11 week program where they're going to come and Zoom. They can be anonymous if they want to. They're going to learn the basics. because I know one thing that abolishes ignorance is the right information. Not misinformation, not disinformation, the right information. So I'm happy to do it.

AO: 44:46

when I messaged you the first time, and then when I was looking and doing a bit more research into you. and research. That is my word that I'm going to stick with. And then I thought to myself, Oh my God, I'm so lucky that she actually said yes, because you're, this is a big deal

Dr Lulu: 45:07

I'm a bit of a big deal. I

AO: 45:09

a really big deal

Dr Lulu: 45:10

have to remind myself that I've spoken to Auntie Oprah. I mean, it's a, it's a bit of a big deal. Um, and she was like, Oh my God, Dr Lulu, you're a trailblazer. Like, because I was thinking about imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome, you're gallant. You're doing things that nobody's, like, she was like, I don't want to hear you say that again. I was like, yes, Auntie Oprah. For real, um, because I really, I'm truly one of one. And that's what I told her. I said, I'm Annie Cross one. So sometimes, I mean, I don't, it doesn't happen anymore. I don't feel that way anymore.

AO: 45:44

Okay, so I didn't know whether to edit out the bit about Oprah because I understand there's this whole thing going on right now on social media where people want to cancel Oprah because of Hawaii and I'm not saying that people shouldn't be in uproar that Oprah is asking for money from ordinary people when she's A billionaire. I get that. But this isn't the point. The point is that Oprah still stands for Before everyone tried to cancel her recently, just trying to help people she's got to speak to all these amazing people who've been on all of these amazing journeys, so to get in front of Oprah, I can understand why that's a big deal.

Dr Lulu: 46:38

But every now and again, you're like, is anybody, does anybody hear me? Is anybody listening? You know, is it, is it landing? But it is. I know it is. I know I probably have to work a little bit. If I was a white woman, maybe it would be a little bit different because, you know, white folks have doors opening up for them, but I'm happy that I'm black. I'm happy that I'm going to do all the work that I need to do because, to me, the whole, the goal might be, you know, telling everybody, but for me, the goal is, That one child, just the one who will say, Oh my God, thank you so much Dr. Lulu because now my mom sees me. My work is done. So it's not quantities about the quality of people. And I know once I start with the one, he's a CEO of an organization that has 27 clinics. 27. So you can imagine the potential ripple effect, like, I can never, I don't even know the word now, like 10x effect of this particular thing a year from now, just a year from now. And then with me moving to California and I'm already making contacts over in California, I have no fears at all. I have so much self trust, so much self confidence that I'm doing the right thing. No problems at all. I'm excited.

AO: 48:06

I

Dr Lulu: 48:06

I think that's all I ask people to just pray for me to just not get tired. I don't think I'm going to, it's not possible, but still, you know, just to not get tired, to just keep going. Because I know, and that's what keeps the one child keeps me going. just what a mother's love can do. Just keep going and just, just never giving up Cause I know that there's one child who's like, Oh, I just, there's a, there's a person that followed me on social media recently, Yorba, Yorba person. And I went through their Instagram accounts. Yeah. Dozens of pictures and every last photograph has the face blurred out and this person is wearing a dress or wearing a wrapper or wearing, and you could tell that they're in their bedroom and I just, I'm going to get emotional. The person is always in their bedroom and always taking pictures of themselves in the bedroom. Dressed up as a woman, but just remove the face because. They're probably so afraid to live authentically. No one should have to go through dozens of pictures, dozens. And they just followed me recently on Instagram, and I just, and I just told them, I said, I see you, I see you, just let me know whatever you need.

AO: 49:41

Did they respond to you?

Dr Lulu: 49:42

They haven't responded yet, but they will. They will, because I was sincere and they were sincere. It will happen. It will happen. Because they're probably afraid. They don't have, they don't trust anybody. And I don't blame them. And it shouldn't be like that. One of the people I'm going to get on my new show is my youngest son. Um, I told him I'm going to have him on my show because I want him to talk about, I want, I want him to talk about going from a big brother to a big sister. What is that like? I want the sibling. I already interviewed him for my book, you know, but I want people to hear him. So I was waiting for him to be 18. Now he's 18. So I don't have to take permission from his parents, which is me. But I don't want anyone to say, Oh, her minor child, cause he's 18. But it's important to also show that side. These kids didn't bat an eye. They were like, okay, her name is P. Okay. We're going to go. That's it. We're just going to go. That's it. It was like, I'm like, wait, what? They're like, mom, that's who she is. I was the one that was like. My kids were like, let's go! So the younger generation gives me hope, is what I'm trying to say. They are so accommodating, however, misery loves company. So a lot of people can still teach their kids to hate, even if they don't mean to. Because children are a product of their environment. So if they see hatred, they will absorb the hate. But thankfully, knock on wood, for now... Most of the younger generation, they are so accepting. It doesn't even make any sense. Like, it's so amazing. Everybody had a phase in their life when they were trying different things. And if it's not a phase, so be it. There's nothing you can do to change what is true. Whoa, that's a nice rhyme, Dr. Lulu. I'm gonna have to steal that. I hope your people, if anybody's a parent can reach out to me and let's have a chit chat. And just know that if you don't understand what's going on with your child, I don't blame you. Because you were socialized to not. However, once you know better, you cannot unknow it now. And that's where I come in. So thank you so much for the time.

AO: 51:58

Thank you you are the best thank you for listening to another episode of Their Story, Their Voice. Thank you. Thank you, and I'm grateful for you, have a great day, I will put links on to Dr. Lulu's podcast, Dr. Lulu's Instagram, Dr. Lulu's Facebook, and where her books can be purchased from and remember, let's just all try and be better and do better by ourselves and by other people. Thank you!