Beyond the Cycle: PMDD & PMS

 In today's episode, we have a fascinating topic to explore: stress relief, menstrual cycles, and the transformative power of embracing our true selves.

Our journey begins with a deep dive into the world of breathwork and yin yoga, as we discover how these practices can alleviate stress, anxiety, and various emotions. But that's not all - we also uncover a captivating story about a woman named Nikki Owen and the quest to find her. Along the way, we tackle important issues such as the stigma surrounding PMS and PMDD, the impact of trauma on hormonal imbalances, and the need for greater recognition and understanding in the workplace.

Nikki is an inspiring speaker and advocate for personal transformation, shares their own remarkable journey and the powerful techniques they use to help others create rapid change. So take a deep breath, settle in, and get ready to explore the depths of stress relief and empowerment in this thought-provoking episode.

Please note transcription accuracy may vary.

Music by - Neffex - don't want to let myself down
Neffex - A year go

https://nikkijowen.com/
https://londonspeakerbureau.com/speaker-profile/nikki-owen/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Owen
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/premenstrual-dysphoric-disorder-pmdd/about-pmdd/
https://stardust.app/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/premenstrual-syndrome/expert-answers/pmdd/faq-20058315

Transcript

Ad: 0:00

Hi, hi, hi, hi. Welcome to another episode of Their Story, Their Voice. This episode I spoke to Nikki Owen. And I found her purely because I have a menstrual cycle app called I think it's called Stardust. Is it called Stardust? It is. It's called Stardust. You input your details, but then it gives you like little information about just menstrual cycle and periods and one of the bits of information that came up was a lady called Nikki Owen and then from that moment on I Obsessed with finding this woman. Who was she? Would she speak to me? Because I live in a world where I have a partner who says to me, It's just a period. Every woman gets them. And... It made me question several times is there something wrong with me? Why do I feel like this during certain times of the month? So I know now just because I'm more educated that Certain times I'm not going to want to do anything. I won't want to see anyone. I won't want to talk to anyone. I might want to possibly hurt my partner because he is actually that annoying and I realize no, I'm, I'm not crazy. I feel how I feel because of my menstrual cycle, because of my hormones, and because I am lacking one of them that I cannot remember. Anywho, the point here is, is Nikki's story, and she was amazing. I didn't expect her to be As amazing as she was, hi Nikki. I just want to introduce you. So, if you could just start by saying a bit about you, nothing too in depth, just anything you're happy and comfortable sharing. Who is Nikki?

Nikki: 2:16

Well, I work helping people to transform their lives when they've been going through difficult situations. So whether it's losing a loved one to feeling this intense anger about things, under pressure, stress, just feeling lost. It's the work I do is really helping people. Just to come back into balance and feel better about themselves. And so that's what I do for my day job. And it was actually inspired by a trauma that I went through in 1978, which really challenged my mental health. When I felt. absolutely lost. And if I'd have known then that I would have been able to recover and then to help so many other people, I would have felt a lot better at the time. So that's just a little bit about me. I'm also, So the founder of the Healing Hub app, I've worked with thousands of people from politicians, celebrities, business leaders, people from all walks of life, and just really helping them using my unusual groundbreaking tools and techniques that have been now validated by science and are designed to help people create rapid change comfortably.

Ad: 3:48

Thank you. now I have so many questions that I want to ask. I'm going to start with the easiest one. Do you mind sharing again, if you don't want to, you don't have to, what was the trauma? the you experience that changed your direction,

Nikki: 4:06

Don't mind sharing at all because it was actually an important milestone in my life because it has defined the work and the woman I am today. So when I was 18, I was facing a life sentence. I was in court number 13 at the Old Bailey and I was charged with arson. I'd burnt my parents house down, endangering life and intent to murder my mother. I was so violent that I had been kept in prison, in Holloway prison, in a solitary confinement in darkness where I was dressed in an indestructible dress, so that I couldn't hang myself or kill myself. And I was fed through a hatch twice a day through the door. And my parents, I was 18 at the time, my parents just couldn't understand why their daughter, who had been perfectly normal up until that point, had just gone. Raving mad. So they called in a psychiatrist to examine me in prison to just try and get to the bottom of my really scary behavior. And I had eight different psychiatric reports. And just to paraphrase some of them, I was described as a maniacal psychopath, incurably, insane. and a danger to society with a recommendation that I serve life in Broadmoor, which is the hospital for the criminally insane. And if it wasn't for my parents refusal to accept this, they, my dad just wouldn't believe that madness comes from the air. And why could somebody be so normal and then so crazy. And it was by sheer fluke. That, uh, he discovered the link between my behavior and my menstrual cycle. And actually my case made legal history on the 20th of December in 1978, when premenstrual syndrome was used as a mitigating factor and the judge accepted that, and I was sensationally freed against all odds. So that's just a little bit about my trauma.

Ad: 6:44

Wow, that's so much to go through at such a young age. And I said this the first time that we spoke, I, speaking to Nikki now, I can't imagine, I can't imagine 18 year old Nikki, because you are just so calm your energy's so light that I, I can't imagine it. At what stage did you think to yourself when you came out of prison, when they said, okay, do you know what? You're not actually insane. I don't feel that anyone should actually really just be called insane, but that's just me. What steps did you start to take to change things around and, and why, why did you decide to do that? Because that was a choice. You didn't have to.

Nikki: 7:35

Well, I was still very poorly when I came out of prison, and although I had started a progesterone therapy to, my body didn't make enough progesterone, and that's what affected my emotions to such a great degree. I mean, today they call it PMDD and it was really hard for me to, even when my hormones were much more balanced, I had still committed these absolute atrocities against my family. Not only that, but I'd gained five stone in weight. I was a compulsive binge eater. I drank tons of alcohol. I had shaved off my Waist length hair, shaved off my eyebrows and cut off my eyelashes. I'd been in and out of hospital with overdoses and stomach pumps. I'd slashed many parts of my body, so having to. Learn to forgive yourself and like yourself, was really difficult because I couldn't even walk down the street and look at people. I was terrified of going out. I had panic attacks at night. So even though a lot of the papers described it as a sensational Christmas story, I was really broken. And it wasn't until a conversation with my dad in January, where he just said, you know, Nick, he said, you've got a huge decision to make. He said, you're at a moment of choice in your life. You can either wallow in a bucket of self pity and you can wallow as long as you want. He said, or you can get out of that bucket and you can sort yourself out and find some meaning. from life. And that's what I did. I, it took me a long time to really figure out how to heal. And I also was very skeptical about the PMS. I was very angry that that was the case. And it took me many years to really realize that my mood swings were cyclical. and that they happened like clockwork every month. And that's when all the dramatic incidents happened. So I started keeping a, you know, a diary so that I could monitor when my period started, when my migraines happened, when my panic attacks happened, when I felt violent and out of control. And so I was able to start to notice for myself that there was definitely and I, I tried all sorts of therapy because I felt I hated myself. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror and it was difficult for me to get work. In fact, my first job was working in a pub and that took all my. Confidence and effort and determination to try and hold that job down because I felt that I was just so unworthy that I was such a failure in my life and it was particularly accentuated because I look like a monster, you know, my eyes were completely dead. I was huge. I had no hair. And I looked really strange and I used to model and I used to be a successful dancer before that time. So it was hard to remember who that girl was. So it took years, but I was always open and curious and quite desperate to find ways to heal myself. And eventually using some different tools and techniques within 10 years, nobody would have guessed that I would ever have been described as a maniacal psychopath and incurably insane. So, uh, it took a while to really recover from that.

Ad: 11:51

I know what we're going back a while, but if we from the late seventies throughout the eighties, throughout the nineties, have we, Are we changing as a society? Are we understanding trauma a bit more? Are we understanding, not all women, I know that, but what some women go through on a monthly basis.

Nikki: 12:16

Is there more help readily available? So a couple of things. Because. In the 1970s and 1980s, if a woman who was suffering from PMS or PMDD would go and see her doctor or her local health practitioner, the normal, prescription would be antidepressants. Which actually make it worse. So there was no real desire or openness or willingness to really accept that there were probably thousands of Nicola's, you know, languishing in jail somewhere or in mental institutions, suffering from something that could be. remedied fairly easily. And I say that because, you know, it's a bit like being a diabetic, if you have issues with insulin, your body doesn't make enough insulin, people understand that your body just needs to be given more insulin. balance you. And yet, you know, when we're suffering from anything to do with PMS or PMDD, we're often experiencing a lack or low progesterone, which means we can't optimize oestrogen. And so it's a medical condition that manifests itself in a number of physical and emotional behaviors, but that isn't. Even now, you know, it's soul destroying that although there's a lot more being discussed on social media, which is absolutely great It's still the default is that if you're feeling depressed if you're feeling Anger, then you just need to go on antidepressants. And so straight away they're treating the symptoms They're not treating the root cause which could be sorted out so quickly. Then to your other part of your question around trauma, trauma is, I think, compounds PMS because, you know, what I experienced because of PMS or PMDD was very traumatic and dealing with the aftermath of trauma, PTSD, is also very challenging but a lot more awareness. is happening now and people are aware of the debilitating effects that can, it can have on people. So I think the good thing about, you know, today's society is that we're sharing a lot more on social media. There's a lot more information that's available. It just hasn't filtered through to as many local GPs as I would like it to.

Ad: 15:14

I would definitely agree with that. I still feel like we're still, you're still. likely to go to the GP and they're likely to prescribe you some form of antidepressants. And I'm only speaking based on my experience of when I've gone to the GP about it. But I also know other people who've gone to the GP and they've had blood tests, told to monitor their diet. I think it's potluck, but that's not right. it shouldn't be potluck. Not now.

Nikki: 15:44

Yet the wave of change is there. And I think the more that we talk about it openly, it also has massive ramifications in a business setting so that most organizations are set up with conventional hours that works brilliantly for the biology of men, but for women who are menstruating, it would be great if a few days or a week before our period, we could actually take that time off, or we could be given permission to lighten our workload because PMS can affect our mental clarity, our cognitive function. It can affect our energy levels. It can distort our perception of everything. It can make us very prickly with people. So we experience a lot of conflict. So I would love to see this kind of taught as a mental health practice within organizations. Strangely. Menopause is something that is more widely accepted, but not PMDD or PMS.

Ad: 16:59

Okay, I have two. The first one made more sense in line of what you're saying, but I'm going to go with the one that's in my head. why is menopause more recognized and more accepted than PMS or PMDD? And also, can you please just say, because... I'm from the world where I know what PMS is, but it wasn't until I spoke to you recently and you said PMDD, I actually had to go on Google. what that stands for and what that is.

Nikki: 17:32

Well, it's a severe form of PMS, so it's extreme. And luckily, not many of the female population experience PMS to that extreme. And yet it's, PMS is still debilitating. So I think that often there is an embarrassment, I think, because of, uh, diversity and inclusion where should we really talk about the fact that we are female and we menstruate. I think there's a lot of pushback or reluctance or embarrassment to talk about it because it happens. I think when women start to enter into the menopause, women generally who are a bit older have a bit more confidence, so they tend to say it as it is. But for some reason the funding is there. They've got Davina McCall, that's a real ambassador. and a great ambassador for the menopause. And there seems to be a lot more funding available. Whereas with PMS, it's still the poor relation and yet something like 40 percent of women experience it to a level where it's debilitating for them. And that just seems not fair, really.

Ad: 18:57

you mentioned about employers and I just wanted to, if you don't mind, what work are you doing with companies to try and change their mindset? Because also it's, there are countries where actually they do give females time off when they're going through their menstrual cycle. There, there are countries that do that. So. I don't know why, I don't know. Are we a bit behind? I think the only country that I remember that definitely does it is Vietnam. Um, they give, they give female staff time off.

Nikki: 19:41

That's amazing. So I'm not an expert in, I don't go into organizations and help people with PMS. That's not my area of expertise. I happen to suffer from extreme PMS. So I've obviously learned a lot about it as a lay woman over the years, but it's not. My core area of expertise, what I do when I go into organizations, I help individuals with confidence, with stress, with trauma, with their mental health generally, and Obviously when I'm working with people and I usually work with people one to one because one size does not fit all and every person is completely unique. No one's had the set of experiences of anyone else. And everyone processes difficult and challenging situations in a different way. So two people can go through exactly the same experience and it can be, you know, the response can be very different. So what I do is I work with. more general things like trauma, mental health issues, stress, anxiety, overwhelm, and also confidence. Because I don't believe you can teach people these techniques to act confident. To me that feels totally inauthentic. I believe that we're all confident. in the right set of circumstances, but if we haven't processed situations from our past, we end up storing them in our body over the years. So, you know, when we experience something like we might be a little girl, you know, skipping home from school because we got nine out of ten for spelling. And our mum, who's a lovely mum, said, Oh, what was the one you got wrong? And in that moment, that little girl thinks, Oh, I need to be perfect for mummy to love me. And so, That could have been the moment that that little girl decided she needs to be perfect. And so she desperately tries to overachieve in everything she does, puts a load of pressure on herself and that causes problems as the adult that she grows into. So my belief is always that when I'm working with people in the current moment. Often the current situation is very rarely the cause of people's discomfort or their stress or their anxiety. It always goes back to something that was at the root of that, that they haven't been able to get resolution on. And so because I work in that deep way with people, I get really great results, but people have to be ready. to work in that way. And organizations have to be prepared to be unconventional, non traditional in the support they provide. Because honestly, to give people advice like, Oh, try walking in nature every day, which is great. Or try, uh, drinking a bit more water or try doing a bit of exercise, pull yourself together, make your bed every morning. These are helpful and I'm not dismissing them completely, but when you've got something that has taken root in childhood, then it's going to need, resolution by going back and helping little boy or girl to heal and find resolution so that the adult feels that they're not self sabotaging anything they're doing in the current moment. So that's why when I work with organizations and I work for some big global organizations, It takes a while for them to really buy into the fact that this is so different, yet we can't deny the results are amazing. So the choice that organizations are given really is, do you want to do a tick box exercise and say you do some nice well being for people? Or do you want to really make a difference and really make an impact? And strangely... It all comes down to budget and fear and of course it does, but then you have to start somewhere and what I find is that I'll work with an individual in one organization and they go on to another organization, bring me in with them. And so. Very slowly in my own small humble way, I'm able to make a difference with a number of people. But it's hard when you're feeling completely out of control, when you feel lost, when you feel overwhelmed, when you just don't know where to turn. And actually sometimes there's so much advice. Which advice do I take? Which one is going to give me that magic solution? Because we're all looking for that magic solution.

Ad: 25:04

it's not a bad, situation to be in, but there is an overload of information. do affirmations, do meditation, like there's just, there's so many, but do you, I, I don't know the answer. So I think I might be asking, do you work your way through? Basically, do you just go through them and see what works the best for you?

Nikki: 25:28

I think that first of all, we're all unique and we're all individual. Meditation is brilliant. No question. So I'm a big fan on anything that calms the mind because the mind and the thinking that, you know, often many of us are thinking pretty toxic thoughts. We tend to beat ourselves up a lot and then we're surprised that we feel like, you know, crap. Um, so I think meditation is a bit like a physical detox. It's great. The trouble is with meditation, if you're new to meditation, is that you're normally quite stressed. That's what brings you to meditation, or you're feeling lost. And your body is full of cortisol. It's full of adrenaline. And so, therefore, trying to calm the mind when you've got the stimulants of cortisol and adrenaline. It's a bit like chucking back a can of Red Bull and expecting to have a good night's sleep. It's just impossible. So that's why so many people give up on meditation because it's not a quick fix. And if you're highly stimulated, then it's not going to work. And then you've got affirmations. Now, if I'm saying an affirmation and I'm repeating, I love and accept myself, I love and accept myself, I love and accept myself. If I don't believe that affirmation, or if I'm saying it without having any meaning, It's not really going to do a lot, so I'm not saying that affirmations or meditation don't work. I think there's a real skill in being able to optimize them and know if you as an individual are right for this or right for that. What I found instead is what helps people who are really stressed and really anxious is breath work because often that stress tends to create a shallowness of breath. So we're, we're taking the breath to, down to the upper chest, which isn't much. So our bloodstream isn't becoming oxygenated, which isn't nourishing the major organs in our body, which is why we get sick more easily. And so breathwork Interrupts the way we normally breathe, particularly open mouth breath work is very powerful and it allows you to take vast quantities of oxygen into the bloodstream quickly. and create a shift in the chemistry of your body. So I love open mouth breath work. I love primal releasing where you mimic a toddler. So it's like you're having a temper tantrum because you just want to release. That pent up stress, that pent up emotion, instead of our natural tendency to push it down and to try and keep it buried. So, I love that sort of thing. I also think that when you blend, Affirmations with neuroscience inspired technology such as binaural beats, then it becomes a much deeper experience that can really optimize the impact of affirmations. So I've done a lot of work. I mean, I've been around the block a few times. I'm now 63 and I've tried so many things and so many things didn't work. and I dropped them and then I came back to them and I tried using them in a slightly different way. So I've had a lot of mistakes, a lot of failures, a lot of things that didn't work over the years but because of that I've learned what does work well for me and what works well for the people that I work with and what works well for one person isn't necessarily going to work well for another person. That's why one size doesn't fit all. So if I were advising anyone, to look at different tools and techniques, if you feel that you're holding a lot of stress and tension, whether you're feeling anxious, if you're quite fearful, if you're prone to worry, if you get frustrated and irritable, then usually all of those emotional expressions are a result of cortisol and adrenaline. So breath work is a really good go to. And the other thing is yin yoga because yin stretches out the fascia and it allows the muscles to release. Unprocessed emotions that are being held in the musculature of the body. So yin, open mouth breath work are my two go tos. And everyone's different. But if you haven't got into meditation, it's good to explore because there's meditation with the breath, meditation with mantra, there's meditation with, movement, there's all sorts of meditation, guided meditations, crazy meditations, it's about giving something a good go, knowing that for something to become better. a daily habit, you need to repeat it on a regular basis. So start with something like five minutes that just commit to doing it on a regular basis. And then after two or three months, there's no quick fix. After two or three months, then just take a step back and think, has this helped me or not?

Ad: 31:13

I am a fan of meditating, mainly because if I get stressed, I occasionally did not know this before, I will just stop breathing. I can't be the only person who we just forget to actually breathe. and through meditation, I realized I didn't know that until I started. I'm a fan of meditation. I feel like, um, it might sound a bit dramatic, but for me, it's. It's kind of saved my life, actually, it, it has, it's really helped. I recommend it to people, but I know, because it's for me, doesn't mean it's for everyone. Some people enjoy it, some people they just can't sit for that long, and I get that

Nikki: 31:52

there's an expectation that we have to sit for ages, you know, start by sitting for one minute and just get used to that. I think it's like anything, it's, you have to build up to something. You wouldn't just go out and run a marathon. You'd start with a little like 50 pace run and then you'd be knackered and then you'd have to kind of keep doing that and then you can run for a hundred paces. But I think that we all want our. change to happen instantly because we're in that culture of instant change, instant gratification. It's interesting about, a lot of people do tend to pause the breath or hold their breath. And the reason for that is that in holding our breath, it's our way of being able to push down emotion rather than allow them to come up. in holding the breath, we're tensing the body, and we're able to push that emotion down rather than feel the emotional distress from what might be a negative emotion. And it comes from a place of fear of not being safe. And the breath is really an indication of what emotions you've. experienced in your life. So when we experience emotional pain, if we don't express that pain, how we really feel in that moment, it creates a split in our consciousness. So that part of us who was really wanting to express that pain, but for whatever reason, didn't feel safe to do that, is separated and pushed down into our unconscious. And then we create this aspect of our personality that says, I'm fine. And so rather than allow ourself to feel the emotion, we'd rather push it down, but it's still in the body and it's still creating havoc with our autonomic nervous system and it can be triggered at any time. which is why, at some point, I'm going to use a really gross example now, but I think people will get it. It's a bit like... Go ahead. It's a bit like, if you've got a spot, you have to squeeze that spot to release the pus. for the skin to then heal. Now, negative emotions are like emotional pus. We need to get them out rather than keep them to fester within us. And in the same way that we have physical wounds, we also have emotional wounds that need to be given The time and the method to really heal because so many of us are walking around the planet right now, full of emotional wounds can be triggered at any time That cause us to feel less than whole or less happy. And so I just find the whole process of our emotions, of the way we deal with them, and it's not even a choice, we don't believe it's a choice, it's something we do because it's born from a primal need to protect ourselves in that moment. I

Ad: 35:26

am just listening to you talk about this, and I think the reason I find you so interesting is because you genuinely enjoy learning about all of these things and the impacts of trauma and what you can, like you genuinely enjoy, you enjoy what you do and that comes through.

Nikki: 35:51

Yeah. Thank you. thank you because this isn't just a job for me. This is my life's passion. I think that the reason that I went through what I went through. In fact, my dad really hit the nail on the head because he used to write to me every day when I was in Holloway prison. And I remember one time when I was just saying, why dad, I don't understand why that this is happening to me. And my dad said to me, he said, one day, he said, you'll look back on your life and you'll realize that everything you've gone through has created the legacy. of the woman you're destined to become. And I didn't understand those words at all at the time. I thought, what, what? But now I realize that had I not gone through that trauma, I'd have probably been quite superficial, very conventional, not a risk taker. Whereas I think when you face the real probability is spending your life in prison and being institutionalized for the rest of your life, you start living life without fear. And you think, well, what about if I did this, would this work? And I think it's given me the ability to really try things out. that most people would be too scared to try because, well, how do you know it's going to work? I remember I ran seminars and masterclasses at the Globe Theatre for five years with people from different organizations. They used to come, and it was all around, creating presence and how to become more inspirational in who you are. And everyone was expecting all this theory. And I was teaching people how to douse for their energy and their electromagnetic field. And I was getting them to shout at apples to see how quickly the apple would decay. I was getting them to stand on wobble boards to find an affirmation. that will cause them to stand still on the wobble boards and people would say to me, how did you know this was going to work? And I say, I had no idea. I just thought it would be interesting to find out. And a lot of stuff bombed. I've mentioned the things that went brilliantly, but a lot of stuff, which I'm so embarrassed about now, but I was able to be really honest and say, I'm not sure that worked. And over the years, this has given me. the ability to learn, to grow. And I think that life is always teaching me new things about myself, about how to be with my clients. The way I work with clients now has dramatically changed from two years ago. And I look at what I used to do two years ago and think, Oh my gosh, that's so last century. But it's only because I embrace what's different and new and I'm not scared of failing and I'm pretty humble so that if I screw up and I mess up, I admit it. And I say, that didn't work. But sometimes in being experimental, you do find something that works for you. So I think it's about having the boldness, the psychological bravery when you're considering things to, you know, not let your own anxiety or fear hold you back from experiencing it. if you feel safe with the body or the organization or the individual that's taking you through it, then that's really important. You have to feel safe while you're learning something new. But I am passionate. It is my life's work and it's what I was born to do. It's why I'm on the planet. And I can imagine you know, if I manage to live for a few more years, which I'm sure I will, that I'll still be doing this and we'll be having conversations, when I'm kind of a little old lady and saying, Oh, I'm still working with people, you know, so hopefully I'll never stop.

Ad: 40:10

Okay. Well, there's part of me that's like, okay, well, you shouldn't because you're just amazing. I get crystals and I go into shops and everyone always says love and light. And actually you are everything that is love and light. and I think that's a good thing. So I don't think you'll stop. I think you'll be old and just still be trying to help people because I think that's just you. I think that's just who you are. Yeah.

Nikki: 40:42

And I think that if I was to give anybody any guidance or advice or just helpful hints that I've picked up along the way is that first of all, that whatever life path you choose, Just really listen to how you feel, really tune into your heart, because what happens that when we're doing something that we love, that the energy of that good positive feeling starts to create some real tangible success in our physical world. So, if we prioritize how we feel... above anything else, then life becomes a lot easier. I think the ability to be really true to who you are and just ask myself all the time, how do I feel about this? Is, does this feel good? Does this not feel good? Often I've made really bad decisions when it's been a logical decision and it's not felt right. and I always revert back to my instincts and my, you know, how something feels. So I think that, whatever, path we're walking and there's always dark moments, there's always twists and turns, we have this belief that life is supposed to be easy and it's so not, but it's in the difficulty that we grow, we learn. So much. And the fact that you're doing this type of work, that you're curious about speaking to people, that you had the guts to reach out and say, Hey Nikki, do you fancy coming on my podcast? I just love the energy about you. And no matter what difficulty you're going through, that your essence. The true, authentic aspect of who you are, the highest aspect of who you are, is always there and always present. That doesn't change. It's just that the humanness and the complexity of our ego, of our desires, of our struggles, we tend to get a little bit captivated with all of that stuff. and we forget that we're beautiful. We're perfect. we're just in a place of such bliss, but we don't really know it because it's got so clogged up with all the crap that's going on.

Ad: 43:23

Thank you. I have one more. I promise then I will let you go. Nikki is, Nikki's very busy. And I, this. I've been really good. I've kept my chatting to a minimal. What is next for you? Because you've achieved, yes, I know you said you've had some things that haven't worked out, but you've achieved so much. What is next for you in your journey? What is next?

Nikki: 43:51

Oh, that's a brilliant question. Let me tell you why I love that question. So in my thirties, having come out of all the crap and sorted myself out, I had these massive big goals. I had a vision for my life. I became so obsessed. I was a workaholic. I gave 100%. I did all the things that you read about in all the self help books. What I've learned now is that it doesn't really matter about what's next. I'm just here in the now enjoying chatting to you. And the one thing I know is that if I'm having a good time, then in the next moment is more likely to be a good time and a not time. So I don't have a clue what's next. I mean, I'm just going to make sure that I keep myself in good health and wonderful miracles are bound to happen because they happen in everyone's life. And whatever happens, I'm going to be grateful and accept it, but I'm not striving and pushing and achieving. I'm enjoying. Right here, right now with you and I love your chat and I love your questions and you've made me smile because I don't know if people have any idea what you look like, but there's such a beauty in you. There's such a earnest passion to give. And I just love that in you, your eyes have got that glint of naughtiness as well, but there's just such a woman there.

Ad: 45:30

You made me smile because I know better, I know better than to ask that question because it's something my meditation teacher says, being present, not what's happening tomorrow or the next hour, because when you're not present in that moment. And you're not enjoyed, so I knew better, but that was a perfect answer. Thank you so much. I think you were trying to test me, weren't you?

Nikki: 46:00

And I think that for everyone that, you know, I always think that time is just an illusion. There is only a never ending series of now. And so if every now that we experience, we try to experience a slightly happier now than the one we felt in the past, then life just has a way of figuring itself out and everything always works out for us in the way that it's meant, not how we'd like it to be, but. There's always learnings along the way, so I haven't a clue. You'll have to invite me back in 10 years and then I can answer it, you know, kind of with the benefit of hindsight. This is what I'd have said then.

Ad: 46:47

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. When we finish, I actually, I'll just add it in now. I'm going to your website. To your books. I'm going to put all of them in the show notes. And I'm also going to put fast like a girl also, which I have not started yet. I have got it, but I have not started it yet, but I'm going to start that. So thank you. It's an absolute pleasure.

Nikki: 47:18

I've really enjoyed it.

Ad: 47:21

Thank you, Nikki. Thank you for listening to another episode of Their Story, Their Voice. I am, as always, so grateful. Right now, I've also realised that when I say we should try to do better by ourselves and one another, I stick by that. I still think we should. However, sometimes doing the best by yourself is actually maybe sometimes nothing at all. Maybe you're having a day where actually you don't want to speak to people, where you're not feeling 100 percent or you've had a bad day and that's okay. Thank you, thank you, thank you,