Their Story Their Voice
Their Story Their Voice
From Reality to Fiction: Exploring the Impact of Computerization on Aviation Safety
Welcome to Kam's story, he spoke to me about the evolution of aviation over the past 35 years and we dived into the intricate relationship between computers and flight.
Kam began his career in aviation with American Airline and talks about how his experience and aviation knowledge helped develop his debut best selling book, High Wire.
This led us to discuss the concerns surrounding the heavy dependence on computers in aviation, which he assured me we are in safe hands.
The challenges faced by pilots in an industry grappling with retirement waves and a growing shortage. We also shine a light on the experiences of women in a male-dominated field and the importance of inclusivity in aviation. Get ready to soar into a world where passion meets innovation as we explore the fascinating world of aviation.
Please note transcription accuracy may vary.
Music by - Neffex - don't want to let myself down
Neffex - A year go
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/High-Wire-Kam-Majd/dp/0440237343/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/first-american-women-flight#:~:text=Harriet%20Quimby&text=popular%20women%20aviators.-,Quimby%20was%20the%20first%20American%20woman%20to%20earn%20a%20pilot%27s,to%20California%20with%20her%20family.
https://simpleflying.com/history-american-airlines/
Hi, hi, hi. Welcome to another episode of Now Called. Their story, their voice. I need to change the artwork, but that's not relevant right now. This is Kam's story, Kam's voice. Kam comes from a background. in aviation, He's also an author with his debut book called Highwire I've put all the links into the show notes if anyone's interested in purchasing the book. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you
KAM:in the 80s, it was difficult to be an airline pilot. It was far more difficult than it is today to be an airline stringent conditions and so many pilots were on the streets, laid off as a result of, deregulation and mergers and some of the airlines that were going out or went out. It was a difficult job. So to be able to accomplish that, it was a monumental task, a big dream, massive dream
AO:Hi Kam, good morning, because I know it's nine o'clock there, so good morning. Thank you so much for saying you would come on. I'm just going to start with, would you tell me a bit about you, anything you're happy sharing?
KAM:Yeah. Sure. First, good evening to you. So I'm Kam Majd. I was born in Iran. And lived there for the first 13 years of my life, and then moved on to India, lived there for four years, moved to Great Britain, lived in London for a year, and then eventually finished high school in the United States, moved here about. 50 some odd years ago, 50 years ago. one of those lives, a lot going on here,
AO:you left Iran when you were quite young.
KAM:Yes, I was 13 years old, myself and two brothers. My father took of us to India and found a place, a boarding school and there and went back. It was bit of a culture shock, language shock, everything. But it's amazing what you can do and what you're capable of no choice getting used to it.
AO:why India?
KAM:It wasn't my decision. We were kids and back then in Iran, as I'm sure it's probably today, the father had more of the rights and they made the decisions for the family and they were divorced. My parents were divorced. So he made the choice of pretty big family was a way of a few people. And us out there and brothers and, many schools that would take us because, we didn't have any guardians, no very way of verifying, financial the situation who's going to pay for somebody gets sick? So we our way down to the list of who would take us and eventually, did. so that became home for a while.
AO:What was that like as a child to be in a foreign country?
KAM:Everything that you would imagine it was. I said, culture shock, the language shock, the food shock. It was just a kid, you're more flexible. try and figure out, I'm here for a reason. I don't know what it is, but I something that I have to do. And, you want to, into that somewhat, it's treated any different the locals. So they, you in a class and started talking to you in English and in Hindi and languages that we knew nothing about. teaching you and they started you questions and putting you on tests. Needless to say, we were, last and there was all three of us in every class because we didn't know what the heck they're talking about. And you would end up having to, a homework book and look at, word on every sentence. We a, dictionary. Each one of us had one. He would take a sentence and ten words and he didn't understand nine of them. And he'd just pull them out and translate them to Farsi, language, the only language we spoke at the time. And, try and understand what the meaning of that one sentence is. Then repeat that for the page and the chapter and the test and, was as far as the studies, the food. was completely and utterly different. We're used to, Eastern food, again, kids, they put in front of you, that was your food here it was, just very different. breakfast, it was porridge and bread, on top of it. Lunch was more porridge and more bread, and then it was something else. And so what is this? But if you're hungry enough, you eat it. we made it to the U. S., And then eventually, 12 years later, I found myself in the cockpit of American Airlines planes, flying flight engineers. And that was 1987. And it was a great moment. It was an unbelievable moment. It was a dream that I couldn't believe has come true.
AO:I know that you are not just, but you're now an author, so I want to ask some questions about, I know this goes into your other career, but would you tell me a bit about your book, Highwire, which is doing great because I've seen the reviews. What inspired you to think to yourself, do you know what? I want to write a book. I think I can do that.
KAM:over the course of the next 35 years, aviation and throughout the world has changed just dramatically. The cockpits of aircraft have gone from three pilots to two. And have become so much simpler, so much safer. And all this heavy lifting, all this heavy loads are falling onto the computers. So there is significantly more computers know, capable of doing all kinds of things. And so by computerizing everything that, in the aviation industry has done and these computers are incidentally, they're designed to essentially be fail proof. So you have a computer that looks at another one and another one, and they back up each other's data. And if any information is wrong, that single computer is kicked out of the system. Another computer is picking up. But in my world, I started thinking we are so heavily dependent on the computer, and a computer doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. The computer simply knows what it's programmed to do. What if it's programmed to do the right and wrong thing? What if, unfortunately and sadly, as was the case with the United 737s have crashed. The computer is telling telling the aircraft to do something that the pilots, don't want it to do. with their MCAS system, the 737s, the computer thinks that the aircraft is about to stall, so it pushes the nose down. That's not the case. That's not what is happening. So the pilots are pulling it back up. but computer has got, several tools at its disposal that the pilots did not. And so it was able to, push the nose down until the aircraft crashed. What if something like that happens? Of course, this story was written long before the 737 tragedies. If a computer does get the wrong information? And doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. And with that came the idea of a computer virus. We are so heavily dependent on computers. What if there is a virus that tells a computer that you're doing something right, when it is not doing what is right? so was the storyline, how did with the idea of writing? I read John Grisham's The Firm. And I was just enamored by it. how vivid he was with his character, how interesting they were, how I wanted to know what happens next, and I was truly excited. And finished the book and I said, I think I can do this. I wrote it around 2000. So it came out right around nine 11 to know 2001. That's when all of this happened. I read it, and I started writing it, and I had a lot of, good fortune right away I got an agent, and, Bath Dell, Random House, bought it, but unfortunately the book was scheduled to come out the week of 9 11, the week that the tragedies in New York City happened. the book itself, on the original cover, big words written across the top, faster than the speed of terror. And about an airplane crash in New York with a, 767 and a bank angle. Pretty much the only thing I missed was the terrorist's names. Even though the book was written two years before the cover was done, six, eight months before, but the timing just didn't work out. original Publishing printing was going to be, I don't know, 244, 000 copies in the United States alone, but they were selling the galleys. The galleys was a rough version of the book. And selling it on the week of 9 11, throughout, the city. And lot of the publishers were, of course, right there in New York City. So the timing was terrible. But, of course, I was affected far less than so many other people who who were affected that day. That's when it originally came out. eventually... About few years ago book was all but just about forgotten because, it's time to run out. managed to get the rights back to myself. I rewrote it, updated it with today's standards. And know, fortunately or unfortunately, the concept still remains the, the dependence on, computers and those types of equipment remain, even though the book is far fetched. The reality is something like this is. Real enough to where, I updated it and re released it recently.
AO:And it has been doing really well.
KAM:It has. It's gotten great reception, great reviews, and it's being shopped around in Hollywood. We'll see what happens.
AO:Okay, but I'm very much a, when you do something, which is amazing, celebrate that. And also you did not mention that it was nominated for an award because it was.
KAM:It was nominated for the Edgar Society, Edgar Awards. best first novel. And this was 2002, I believe. And so it was wonderful. It was a great evening and Bell sent their publisher and know, several, many, half a dozen, maybe more editors. black tie dinner. It was the Oscars of the books, Didn't win just be nominated and to be in that environment, for the first time,
AO:It's a big achievement. Not every first time author can say that. So no, it's a big, it's a big achievement, whether it won or not, it's still, it's a massive achievement.
KAM:It was wonderful to a part of that. And then just, to dream and imagine and encourages you to move on. Unfortunately I did not. I had so many other things going on. I wrote a couple of other books, with the flying was going on and raising a family, started business, some of the things now, with the schedule, allowing me back into the writing mode, books in the works, both should be coming out here shortly. We'll see where it goes.
AO:Good. Can, okay, I have will move on, but I just wanted to ask your next books, are they sequels or are they just completely separate to Highwire or are they the same premise?
KAM:One is a sequel with the same, they wanted the same characters to come back. They liked them a lot. And so the second book was also sold to Random House at the time, Dell. Will be a redone sequel as well. I'm working on it. the one that's coming out shortly, it's completely different. It's about sisters identical, a few years apart. Is born and raised in America, and one is raised. Born and raised in Afghanistan, and the book takes place 30 days before the American or the NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan in July of 2021. The one in Afghanistan has no clue, neither of them know about each other. And the one in Afghanistan has no clue why she's raised, she's in this village. She has no idea why she has blue eyes and light hair and fair skin. It's the stuff that she considers, she thinks she's cursed by it because all the attention she's getting over there and their paths, they find out about each other. And the older sister, the one that lives in America has to go there to Afghanistan and try and find us all of the mayhem and the insanity of the withdrawal was going through. And so you get to put yourself into that culture and into the minds of these two girls who are very much the same and yet, not the same at all. And to see what it's like to be in two different cultures and two different places when, it really is all about, how you were raised and your surroundings and how you grew up.
AO:So it's nurture versus nature.
KAM:Yeah, I guess you can say that. I didn't think of it that way. Correct. But it's a thriller. It's a very fast paced thriller. And no one, and you bring in younger girl has learned something about the withdrawal or about some activities over there that, if it comes out, it will be devastating to the multiple governments. And then things are seen, and it's a fast paced thriller.
AO:Okay. Can you just repeat what it was called? Because I'm writing it down now. So then I can look out for it
KAM:paced movie. It's called Silent Voices, that's with reference to the children of Afghanistan, of course. So many of them, being orphaned in 30, 40 years of war out there. and our You know, one of our two heroines that's out there, it really falls into that category and being an orphan out there, she's just an orphan with light skin and blue eyes.
AO:No, that your main protagonist in your current book High Wire is a female and you're talking about silent voices and obviously they're females. why was it important for you or why did you choose? Why did you choose for the main character to be female?
KAM:Each book is just a different So I'll start with with voices first. I'm surrounded by women thing. I have my wife, I have two daughters, the dog, the bird, everything is a female here. So I'm more familiar with the psyche and their thinking. stories are about conflict and it seems like it would create much more of a conflict, and dramatic conflict, to have women in that role and to have, younger girls that are more helpless, and the cruelty that is done to some of these folks that out there. To this gender throughout the world and throughout different cultures. It was important to try and bring that up in, in silent voices. Was a different story. Once I decided on the story itself that I wanted to be, a computerized, a high tech computer thriller, in the aviation world, it came down to, how do you want to tell the story and who do you want to tell the story? And again, it came back down to conflict, a male protagonist or a female protagonist, aviation is very much a male dominated world. And to say that doesn't even do it justice. Even today, 2023, a number of women pilots are somewhere around 6%. So 94% are still men. So 20 years ago, I don't know what it was 98, 99, some crazy numbers that are out there and there was a bit of an unspoken tradition in the cockpits many years ago, decades ago. And, you'd have a centerfold pictures in nooks and crannies in the cockpit, in a handle bar or someplace that are open and guys would get in there and look at it and pass it on and then, fold it and put it back for the next guy showed up on a flight and all you know, red, I recall it, it's doing, going from LA to York, and the flight engineer was a brand new girl, he was a lady. And we introduced ourselves, sat down and, the other pilots reached out and pulled out one of these pictures. Almost immediately, we both realized how awkward this is, how bad this is. Put it quickly back and put it in there. But she had seen it, and she had noticed it, and she was gracious, and she, done this before and she was very, courteous about it. But oddity of it, how strange it was, what had just happened, something that you had routinely done and never thought about. Night, all the way to New York, I thought about this, what an uncomfortable place we had put her in, to experience that. And by the time we landed, they said, protagonist has to be a female because it's not, she's not only dealing with all the duties and the responsibilities of an airline pilot or an airline captain, but now she has to add to that. The fact that she's in such a minority, and in fact, she does such a in the very first chapter does the unthinkable and when the aircraft stops responding to her commands essentially purposely crashes it. In that crash, six people die. But had she, you'll learn throughout the book that had she not done that every. And she's blamed for it. She's blamed because she's a woman. She's blamed because they feel that she was hired under the scrutiny of the government because they hadn't hired enough women because, all of the various things that, that go on over there. And so it just added pressure, added conflict to the story. So that's why, Female was chosen for that
AO:In your opinion, why aren't there that many females in the Aviation world. Why are they in the minority in 2023
KAM:it was a man's world forever and ever, the first female in on earth, first female captain or first female pilot, I think, was not hired until 1976. I believe that's a long time into aviation. Think it was American Airlines who hired the woman, Bonnie something or the other, I forgot her last name. She has written books and gone on tours. you go back to the first days of aviation, Most of the airline pilots after World War II came from the military. There was no general aviation. In fact, most of them came through the military for the longest time. And the military hired males. So when you're, transitioning into that world, coming in from an environment that is extremely male going to take some time, it's changing, you're seeing more and more women now they're, in stripes and uniforms, but again, even the number today is so small compared to, Almost any other field, even air traffic controllers. it was just changed. Flight attendants in the back were always, stewardesses as they call them. There were always women. Now you're starting to see more men in there. I don't know what the numbers are, but quite a bit more. So it's finding its way, but it's going to take some time.
AO:I'm not asking for women who don't want to do it to go into it. But I don't know, I can't imagine that if you wanted to go into it as a career and then you were looking at the statistics, I don't know if that might be a bit off putting, I don't know. I
KAM:If you want to be a pilot, you want to be a pilot, it's one of those things that, that, it's not a career choice like most careers. Okay. Do I want to be an engineer or an accountant? Do I want to do computer software or something else, do I want to be an attorney or you want to be a doctor? There's something about aviation that I tell people that's similar to wanting to be an actor. Most people don't become actors to become, and famous, they become actors because the need to be able to stand in front of a stage, on a stage in front of a bunch of people and do what they have to do. Aviation is similar to that. Most people that I know that have gotten into flying, have gotten into, they've had a love of it ever since they were children, looking up at airplanes. And they'll have a love of it till they die. Myself, right now, after all these years, 44 years in the cockpit, I go down the freeway, I look up at the, in the sky, I look at an airplane, I try to tell what kind of airplane it is, or what's going on, I see it, most people hear an airplane noise, it's just noise, it goes by them but I'm curious, I want to know, so if you're bitten by the bug, you're going to want to do it. And hopefully more and more girls are now bitten by that bug. Because, it becomes more normal. And as more girls start to become women, and they start to want to get into the cockpit, you hear more and more stories about it. And hopefully, books and... Movies and whatever else happens will help, change all that. As a minority, I can tell you a couple of things about that. I was best of my knowledge, the very first Iranian at American Airlines to be hired and this was, back in the eighties, and so I knew a thing or two about being, outside and coming in. Again, the forces that drove you to be, a pilot were so much stronger. Than anything else any kind of an obstacle, and it wasn't an obstacle for me. It was wonderful. Think all the airlines are like that, but certainly American Airlines was
AO:sorry to interrupt you, would you... Say why you being Iranian and wanting to work for American Airlines. Why was that such a big deal?
KAM:I don't know how old all of you are, but the whole, the 1979, I think it was 1980, when the hostage crisis was going on, wasn't considered, one of the favorite countries. Prior to that, when the Shah was there, countries were great friends, but everything after that was bad. Still is today. And in the 80s, it was difficult to be an airline pilot. It was far more difficult than it is today to be an airline stringent conditions and so many pilots were on the streets, laid off as a result of, deregulation and mergers and some of the airlines that were going out or went out. It was a difficult job. So to be able to accomplish that, it was a monumental task, a big dream, massive dream. And in fact, on my interview, when I went in there there was multiple interviews back then, there was three sets of interviews three sets, multiple days. And on the third set, you went in the morning and you wrote the simulator and they wanted to evaluate you to see what you're like, doing that. And after that, we had, I think what they call a captain's review board. You dropped your log books and all of that somewhere. And then, you waited in your suit and tie and clammy hands, to be waited to call in. I got called in. There was two gentlemen, older gentlemen. Two captains, they may have been retired, I'm not sure and they, welcome Kam, and they noticed my last name, Aisht, how do you say it? And the name was, difficult to pronounce, and them asked, where are you from? Where were you born? And I said, I was born in Iran. If there was any issues out there, I wanted to know about it now. If it was going to get any kind of a negative, thing, that people felt I wanted to know at that point. I didn't want to be in a place for the next. Decades that didn't want me. And, one of them must have noticed, felt the discomfort that I had at that point. And the guy just turns around and says, I couldn't give a crap where you're from or where you're born. All I care about is what kind of pilot you are. And right there I knew I was home. All I wanted. I wanted a chance and they gave me a chance and it was just a wonderful experience, all 35 years of it. You either have it in your blood, you either really want to do it. It's not I don't know what to do. I'm just going to go be a pilot. That's not how it works. It's a difficult job, psychologically because of the responsibilities of the fact that you're not home, physically of in a pressurized compartment for so long, you're going through time zones, all of which gets harder as you get older. It's just a difficult job. It's not the easiest job. But if you have the love for it, you have the love for it. Nothing can be taken out. And so yeah I've enjoyed the heck out of it. There's nothing that would change about my whole career.
AO:I ask, this was not on my list by the way, so I'm so sorry, but it's just because you're here. So I just want to ask at any point after 9 11, did you question whether it was something that you wanted to continue doing?
KAM:Never. it was so personal to me. Being an American airline pilot, I flow those routes. I flew that class of airplane at the time that this was going on I was a 767, 757 pilot at the time. So personal to me. And this whole thing being based on religion and what occurred. It was. Beyond, terrible. It was, this is a terrible time. And again I suffered far less than so many other people that are out there, but it was a difficult time. Questioned my intentions or my career choice or any of that. Never felt anything from anyone, outside being from Iran or anything like that related to that, it was always just perfectly fine. You do take it more personally. Why is this happening? Why, in the name of religion, who the hell does that? What is this logic, I've had the fortune of experiencing so many religions, having lived in multiple continents, multiple cultures from an early age, first 13 years of my life living in Iran. It was all about Islam is the best religion and the best gods, and I moved to India for the next four years, and now, it's Hinduism is the best religion, and the best gods, and the best prophets, and I went to England, right when, the heart of the the whole IRA, events, 1974, Catholics and Protestants, doing all the damage to each other and saying our system is the best, and this God is the best, and this religion, and then to America. So a kid, and still essentially a kid, a teenager, asking himself, how many vests are there? How many gods are there? How many prophets are there? How can they all be the best? Until I learned that all religions are good. All religions say the right things. No religion says, lie, steal, cheat, kill. What we do with it. man?
AO:It's what human beings do with. Religion. It's not religion
KAM:Yeah,
AO:what I've come to realize.
KAM:And for me that's what it was. I started, started looking into Buddhism and what that is all about. It's a peaceful religion. In fact, I was so fascinated by it. I went to India for multiples of years. I kinda went into the. I followed the pathways of the Buddha, where he was born, where he died, where he did his first teaching, and ultimately where he was enlightened, in Bodhgaya, this compound out there. I went there four years in a row and tried to meditate. It's such a wonderful religion, but even Buddhism you can destroy, like they're doing now, and you
AO:no don't do that. In my head, Buddhism is the one, it's the one religion and I don't even know that much about it, but in my head, it does just symbolize
KAM:Yeah, but look, look, I don't want to, yeah, mess it up for you, but just look at what they're doing right now to what was former Burma. It's purely, almost purely Buddhists and look at what they're doing to their, people out there, the non Buddhists, other places that they have done. There is no religion that is safe in the hands of mankind. If they decide to choose to, manipulate it to their own needs. They can always justify anything. I don't mean to disillusion you, but that's just my opinion, and it's just, what I have noticed is unfortunately you need to decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Without the influence of anything else out there.
AO:I
KAM:It's not a book conversation or a plane conversation, but it is out there.
AO:Sorry, it's, I don't even know where one came in, but I just, I am just interested in knowing things. So I'm going to ask you something else, which is not a book or a pilot.
KAM:Bring it on. Whatever you want.
AO:have you been, since you left Iran when you were 14, have you ever been back?
KAM:13 when I left. And back seven years ago. wanted to know what it's like. I was curious. And I went back for just a few days. And it was not as as I remembered it. It was very disappointing in a lot of ways, once you're used to a different path, a different way of life, it's difficult to, to adjust to, to completely something new at my age. Anyhow.
AO:Okay. No that's fair enough. And also. I know Iran is not the only place, but they, there is a lot going on. There was a lot going on there. It is. It's not easy for some of the people living there. I feel like we, most people know that. So I get that. I do. Do understand that I just, that was just me being nosy and just being curious.
KAM:Yeah,
AO:I will stay on, I will stay on track. I will stay on track.
KAM:whatever you like.
AO:Now at this stage in your life, if someone came to you and said, do you know what? I'm interested in a career in aviation. What advice would you actually give them? Because I know you said about loving it and having a genuine interest, but is there any other advice that you would give them?
KAM:Yeah, absolutely. I'm asked that question often. And strangers, at a party or, friends and family. You the same thing. It's the best time if you truly have a love for this industry, it is the best time to do it for so many reasons. Number one, and the biggest reason is just a number of people who are retired. Many pilots are retiring, American Airlines alone, I know something like eight or 900 pilots a year, and that's a huge number for a single airline altogether, more than maybe 10, 000. And it's very difficult to hire pilots and to train pilots. And every time a senior pilot leaves or retires, you not only have to train his replacement, but everybody else who's going up the ranks, to fill up those. So multiple people have to be trained for each pilot that's out there. With so many retirements, you're gonna progress your your progression is gonna be significantly fast. You're going to go into bigger planes, flying further, making more money, better, conditions. So that's one aspect of it. The second aspect is because of what is now through as a pilot shortage, a real pilot shortage. They're finally starting to really take care of pilots. The, whether it's working conditions or pay, or benefits, they're all becoming significantly better. Not like the time, when I got on. There was mergers and acquisition and nobody was ever happy about those. There were every airline, every major airline in the United States declared bankruptcy. I'm not sure if Southwest did, but all the other ones declared bankruptcy. And in those bankruptcy, essentially, in almost all cases, half of your retirement disappeared, just went away. And being a pilot is not, not an attorney. You can't just pick up from here and go over there and start working. You're all, you're connected to your seniority date and your seniority number. And the choice was not there. I said, okay, you know what, screw this. I'm going to go work for, Southwest or another airline. That option was not there. You're going to stay there and you're going to take it. But I think those times were for the most part behind us. And so it's, aviation is better. Aviation is safer. Aviation is look at where we go now. You can literally connect any two points on the planet. Right now with a plane ride. It wasn't like that even 20 years ago. Smaller planes, smaller fuel tanks. Not smaller planes, that's 747s, but it just was not the same. It's a different environment. It's fun, it's great, it's safe, you make a bunch of money, and so if you have the desire, I mean it's still hard, you're still not going to be coming home at night, 5 o'clock every day. So your room, your mat, your... Boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, whatever, husband going to be, they have to be used to you being gone, your children and you will still, eat when you don't want to eat and because of the time zones and, I often say I did the London route for, 15 years and the flights here left Los Angeles around six o'clock in the evening. And got there around five o'clock in the morning. And by the time he got to the hotel, it was 7 a. m. here, but, four o'clock, over there. And so I always tell people by the time you woke up with a cup of coffee, and a bowl of cereal, I had a shish kebab and a beer in my hand. It's hard, you do enough years of that, if you can get through that, if you have the love of aviation, like most of us do I would jump on it right now.
AO:I think you have to have the love of aviation, as you've said, because I've done that LA to London flight, and obviously I've only done it as a passenger, so I don't need to be alert, and never again it's just a very. It just seems a very long journey as a passenger, and that just as a passenger, so I personally could not do it. I'm grateful for every time that I've landed at a destination safely, but I couldn't do it.
KAM:Yeah. And like I said it's for, it's something that you either love or you don't love. It is not an acquired taste. You're either fascinated by aviation. You want to see the movies that are all about it, maybe go on YouTube and watch it and that kind of stuff. We've been around it. Maybe, somebody in your family was in aviation or he said, man, this is too hard. I have just no interest. Most by far, most people, everybody has some hidden level of interest in it, and so you get together at a party and then you tell somebody you're a pilot, you'll get a small crowd, people would want to know this and that. to do it as a career, what you experienced, it doesn't get easier with age, by the way, you start doing it, at 30 when you get on with the airlines. And it's a little harder at 40, and then 50, and then 60. And then, by the time you become senior enough to really fly captain on these routes, you're in your 60s, possibly. And and it's not the same. It's much, much harder. I just came back from London, as a passenger, and a tourist. It was a wonderful experience. But we're pulling into the the hotel. I've been there a couple of weeks. I'm used to the time. I'm enjoying my time. It's not a 20 hour layover like everything else was. see these, this crew that's just dragging their bags in and they just look exhausted. The jackets are open. The tie is loosened. The hat is, pulled back. And then we go in and do our stuff. I took notice of it next morning, we're again going out to do some sightseeing and I see the same crew coming in, the jacket is buttoned, the ties a little tighter, but the faces are just more, now they're getting ready to go back to, God knows where that those elements are there But again, there is nothing to replace, a still night, clear still night as you're coming in and sinking into downtown anywhere, and you see those lights come up to you, or you're seeing the Hawaiian Islands in the distance, and just the beauty of it, the serenity of it, it's just, there's nothing that replaces that.
AO:Why are a lot of pilots now retired? I'm so sorry. I can't help myself. I wish you knew how many other questions I had in my head that I will not, I will just stop them. But why are so many pilots now retiring?
KAM:Good answer. First of all, feel free to ask any questions. I saw the question you said. I did not look at it. I'm sorry. I,
AO:No one ever
KAM:I'm because it's. My most things are just like this, you see something and you want to talk about it. So don't feel bad about asking questions, ask whatever you want to ask they're good questions. And these are good, important things that, that interest you and hopefully interest, your audience. And that's what we wanted to hear good question here. So 1978. President Carter deregulated the United States Airlines. What does that mean? For the first time, aircraft could fly where they wanted to fly. They could charge where they wanted to charge. Prior to that, they were limited in what they could charge and where they could fly. So for the first time, it just became wide open. Anybody does anything that they want to do. So it dramatically changed the, Landscape of aviation industry in America, which leads, the planet. Great for some airlines and it was terrible for some other airlines. Great airlines like Braniff, Eastern, Pana, all the best ones out there. They went out of business. Other airlines expanded dramatically. American Airlines was one of them. They all expanded dramatically. So 1978, that happened. So in the early 80s, starting about 1984, the airline started hiring in a massive binge, 80 pilots a month, something that was, poorly. American that just wasn't done before that. And when 80, and then you do that over a short period of, over about a, 5, 6, 7 year period of time, they were hiring that many airlines. So American went from 4, 000 pilots to something like 15, 000 pilots.
AO:That's a lot.
KAM:hired all at the same time. Now these guys are all retiring at the same time. 65. On your 65th birthday, you cannot fly. You can fly and one day before that. But by midnight that day, you are no longer can be an airline pilot in the United States, and a lot of other countries have followed suit, so that's the case. And so all these guys were hired at the same time, they're all hitting 65 at the same time. And, and so you're seeing this massive retirement that is yielding, to a pilot shortage. And because again, let's look at what happened in the last 20 years. You had 9 11. You had multiple bankruptcies that followed after that. You had pay cuts. You had retirement benefits that were destroyed. So fewer and fewer people went into aviation, not to mention the military. Military used to be, the biggest provider, supplier of airline pilots. And military has far fewer pilots now. Drones are taking over. A lot of the work that they do. And so they were spending, I think it was a million dollars per pilot in training. And then these guys would put in four years or six years and bolt and go with the airlines. And so that has, shrank significantly. So you put all of that together and the fact that we just, there weren't, nobody was aware. He knew it was coming, he knew pilot shortage was coming, but nobody knew to what extent. And then of course the mother of them all hit, COVID and airlines didn't know what the heck to do. We were flying airplanes with one passenger, one passenger in an airline, in an airplane that, that's designed to, fly 200 or 300 passengers. And the amount of money they were losing, I think American was losing 40 million per day, every 24 hours in a million and a half hours, an hour million and a half dollars an hour. And so they went into a panic. And they tried to cut costs back, but they didn't know what to do. Nobody knew how long this would last. How bad is it? So they started buying pilots up, they wanted pilots to, to retire early. They give em 50, 60, 70% of what they were getting paid to leave, and they would continue to pay that until the day the retirement keeps. So those pilots right now collecting money and not wanna work. And so they took it. Many of us took it. And so you put all of this together. And then you bring in the post COVID. Hell that is occurring right now. People locked up for two years and they just can't get enough travel. Doesn't matter where you go. I said I was in London and Paris and the works. I have never seen this. I have gone to London. 50 years Including a time when I lived. I have never seen what I saw. It's like a crowded movie theater You have to walk sideways. You couldn't get into a pub a restaurant. There was nothing forget hotels and So now, you know everyone wants to fire, you know fly with a vengeance But everything that I described, a while ago are in existence. So how do you do that? You can't rush pilot hiring. There's still a process and still for every pilot you hire, you got to train three or four other ones that are going to take the place of the previous guy. And so you put all of this together and you come up with the, The ball of jambalaya that we have in our hands right now, which is how do you do this? How do you manage this? The fact and the similar by the way the air traffic controllers United States Many of them retired they were hired the same time retired at the same time and through COVID They didn't you know, they couldn't work that laid off whatever and now they're struggling with you know Trying to replace them and trying to train them You know, you can just hope that, there are people smart enough that recognize all this and they can put, brakes into it and stop it where they need to so that they can train people because, with a million new people, experience still does count.
AO:But are they? Because London when I've traveled since COVID, London, Heathrow. Or trying to book flights, or even when I was L. A., New Zealand and I said to my friend, What is going on with trying to get a ticket? And she said, There just aren't as many flights that are travelling out. And in my brain, which is logical, at some point we realised the pandemic was going to be over. So it's, why hasn't something been put in place? I don't know why I'm asking you. This is just in my head.
KAM:No, by all means, for all the reasons I just gave you during pandemic and before pandemic, they had started a shrinkage process and now all of a sudden they're having to catch up. And they can't catch up. The number of people that are flying today are more than 2019 before the pandemic hit. And they're flying with fewer aircraft. than they did in 2019. So airplanes are fuller now than they were before the pandemic, but more people, they're just not ready for that. Those people are still filling up these airplanes, the baggage guys that need to be, hired and trained so they know what to do. The ticket agents have to be, hired and trained so they know what to do. It's just, and then of course, attendants, but again, the pilots and air traffic controllers that take more time to train and hire and, do all the things that have to do. It's just a difficult place. It's a difficult situation to replace all of these. And then the vengeance by which, People want to be traveling, people that were locked up for two years. It's all coming together and created this environment, this fierce head of, the fact that it is this sane still surprises me given, where things are. Because they could have been significantly worse. So I'm praying to God that they are, they're smart enough to be able to know what they have to do and continue to, maintain it.
AO:In your opinion, how many years do you think we have for them to just try and get this sorted out? Are we, do you think within the next two years, within the next five years
KAM:some things are going to go on indefinitely, not at least for 10 years. The pilot retirement is a very real thing, and that's going to go on indefinitely. For at least, the next 10 years. I'm sure it's similar to the numbers here with air traffic controllers. I think you'll see the improvements. You're already seeing the improvements. This year's travel is not nearly as insane as last year's. That they're going to get, acting together a lot routinely at least. Maybe not quickly, but they will know what to do. If an aircraft is going to cancel and how that affects You know, airplane doesn't just go from L. A. to New York. If they're going to cancel this, what happens to the flight that was going to go from New York to Baltimore? Or from the one that same airplane that was going to go now then to Fort Lauderdale? Things are so connected. They're learning what to do with that. Should become smoother, but I think it's going to be a transition period. It's already become better. This is significantly better than a year ago. So next year will be a little better than today this year and so on. But as far as this going away, I think for the most part, I wouldn't count on it. I think this is probably here to stay for a number of years. They're not talking about delaying the pilot retirement age in america to maybe 67 It just passed some preliminary, hearings. That happens, then that pauses everything for two years, but two years, they'll give them time to catch up, to hire more people and be ready for when it starts again, two years later. So that will be helpful to a certain extent if they do that. I would not bet on a magic cure. This is not, it's not, a restaurant where you can go in and hire people or close up for a week and then hire people and everything is new and the thing happens. Yeah, everything is just so connected.
AO:Okay. Thank you. I think that one was just for, I feel like that one I just asked for people who obviously just ask people who fly. This is something that's in our head is when will this ease? So I just
KAM:It's easing. It's getting better already. Have to compare it to the way it was 12 months ago. And and it's not as bad. I don't know if it's 10% better or 40% better, but it is a little better. And next year will be a little better. And again, there, there's no magic bullet here. Nothing is going to come and stop the pilots from retiring out of the, the age 67 thing, and then even that's temporary until, then the floodgates open when that time it's not to mention that some of them may not. From 65 to 67. Like I said, it does get more difficult for you on your body and it does age you quite a bit faster. The average age for an American airline pilot is now 76, which is not very old after you retire. I learned that through, Retirement planning people, they're really explaining all of that stuff. To spend more time in that cockpit exposed to that radiation and, eating when you're tired and sleeping when you're hungry or, all of the things that, that upend your body. Some people may not want to even go that far, go to 67. They may just choose to retire now. All of that will play into this. So short answer again, it's going to get a little bit better all the time, but I wouldn't expect, a magic cure.
AO:okay. One more. You mentioned earlier, I promise this is my last one. mentioned earlier about the book and. Just the now on airplanes, there's a lot more technology than there was when you first started. I'm just going to ask this in, is that the best way you, I'm all for technology being the best that it can be, but I agree with what you were saying that technology isn't foolproof. It can, it can have its glitches, things can go wrong. It's flights are still safe, aren't they? It we've progressed in terms of safety. I feel like I should ask this question.
KAM:So let me give you some specifics. You, everybody has always heard that flying is safer than driving. And then it's an absolute reality. So here are some specifics with that. The chances of you getting in your car to go get a gallon of milk, and dying in that event is about 1 in to 2, 000. Okay, I'm going to get in my car. I'm going to go to the store around the corner. I'm going to get a gallon of milk. The chances are 1 in 2, 000, somewhere in that neighborhood. The chances of you getting into an airplane and dying of a crash is 1 in to 11 million. We're starting to get into the lottery. Numbers over here it is safer, it is by far safer and it is becoming safer. And I'll take a look at, you used to have airplane crashes, all the time. There used to be attorneys, law firms that were dedicated to defending, that have people that have suffered from that. Law firms are for the most part out of business. How often do you hear of an airplane crash? Especially in the Western world. It just, it's very rare anymore. And yes, they are becoming safer. And it's becoming safer for multiples of reasons. Aircraft are safer. The maintenance is safer. But more than anything, the training of aviators, of pilots. And then the flight attendants, they're there for safety more than anything else. They're not there to save you diet cokes. They're there for safety. 80% of their training is in safety and what happens when things go wrong. So in a rare occasion, when something does happen, the fact that what they can do, to get the the aircraft emptied out. Look at, the miracle of the Hudson, the role that the flight attendants played in so many other places. Everything is becoming safer. Absolutely it is. You can see that in anything you do. So feel, don't feel bad. When people do feel unsafe on an airplane, it's almost always because of turbulence. So I'll give you a little statistics that might help you with that. So you're sitting in the back of a plane. When the other guys seat, seat back right in your face, you can't do anything, you can't go anywhere, and you're bouncing all over the place. And you're certainly, I'm just gonna crash and die, this thing's gonna fall apart, it's gonna break apart. So take this little piece of information with you, and that might make you and your listeners feel a little better. In the history of aviation, from day one, no major airline type aircraft has ever crashed due to turbulence. Turbulence alone. It hasn't broken apart and fallen apart because of turbulence, airline type aircraft, none, not one, these airplanes are designed with such stringent regulation. They can withstand far more than any, anybody that's on the inside, can withstand, the aircraft will do, they put the types of loads on them during the testing and the certification process that makes them almost bulletproof. Now, it doesn't mean that you won't always run into some crazy event that occurred, some kind of a maintenance failure that, you know, that, that occurred, like the Aloha airline where the top flew off because of something, or the Japan airlines where the tail, disappeared, or, Sioux City United Airlines, where they did this unbelievable job of saving people. So there are things that will happen, but even the three things I mentioned to you happened 25 to 35 years ago, I can't think of anything, in the last year or years, so yes, it's good, it's safe, and if that doesn't work, have a bloody mary.
AO:Nope, that was perfect. I feel so bad because I feel like I've asked you so many questions. I promise I'm done now.
KAM:like. I'm yours.
AO:Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. And I feel like one of my questions was, do you know why I ask so many questions about aviation? Because in my opinion, I don't, I'm not sure your book, your first book would be what it is without you having the career in aviation. I feel like, I don't know. I feel like that was part of the inspiration for. The book, you base some of it upon your
KAM:Yeah, absolutely. Listen, the concept itself is a little bit out there, but even for that I brought in experts. I brought in, engineers from Boeing and Airbus and I sat down and I talked to them and they said, yeah, the concept is out there, but still not that, they said you need to send copies of this book security departments of both Airbus and Boeing, which I did. It's critical to write about something, it's critical to understand what you know about, and that's what I have done in this book. So what you will read here is the way it is, and if something does go wrong in a cockpit, this is what happens, if something, it's, the timing of the process or, the occurrence of it the airplane is not. It's not only about airplanes. The book, I'm sorry, it's not only about airplanes. First chapter happens in the airplane, a little bit in the middle, and a significant part of the last part, when our protagonist finds out what has happened, and she has to go save the passengers from another airline, but probably give up her life in the process. parts of it, it's fiction, of course, but everything that you will hear, everything that you will read from, the technology perspective, from an operational perspective, from an air traffic perspective, for the most part it is the way it is out there. So absolutely it helped to be an airline pilot, I couldn't write about, some of the things that I don't know anything about. Even the Afghanistan story, I was, as a kid, I lived in the next door country. I have been there as a child. So again, writing from what you know is pretty important. And that's what, I've tried to do.
AO:and that is love the way I'm putting words in your mouth, but in my head, this is for people who might want to be a author. Maybe that's a word of advice that actually sometimes maybe it helps writing about something that you know about or you have experience in,
KAM:Yeah, the biggest, one of the biggest things that I read is right about what you know. And if you want to write about something you don't know, make sure that you research the heck out of it so it looks like but to sit there and, readers are smart. Readers are not dumb. They're not going to, and if you start to hum and, and they start to write some stuff, it won't take long before somebody says, this guy hasn't done his research or he doesn't know so write about what you know. And if you don't know, learn, if you want to write about it, learn the heck out of it, go there, see it, watch it, feel it, and that's what I've tried to do and, give it a voice of legitimacy. Thank
AO:Thank you so much, I'm so sorry I've taken up a while I took up a whole entire hour of your time I'm so sorry Thank you, Kam. Bye. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening to another episode of Their Story, Their Voice. I will put everything related to Cam's book in the show notes. I had to re record this bit because there was definitely a train going past and I will be back next week with just a mini episode and then the week after I will have a guest. So again, thank you and I appreciate you.
